Rusty reloading dies

JonB

JonB

Halcyon member
Some time ago, I bought a old 45-70 RCBS 3 die set (date code G, circa 1956) and the dies have some surface rust on them. Currently I have them soaking in Ed's Red. Luckily there is no rust in the Sizing area of the FL sizer die, and also no rust in the crimp area of the seat/crimp die and no rust on the expander...all the critical areas. None of the rust is the severe pitting type, it's just the shallow, ugly surface type.

So the question is,
Do I completely de-rust the dies (with chemicals and/or electricity)?
OR
Do I just clean them with oil and denim cloth (to leave all the vintage patina), and maybe oil and gentle "hand-powered" wire brass brushing on the knurling ?

I imagine some people will just say, it's a personal preference. So, while I do like patina/rust-stain on vintage tools (I have a pretty good collection of old tools, thanks to my Dad and both Grandpas...plus some that I've acquired plenty auctions and garage sales), I also like shiny and new looking tools, because who doesn't?

I'm on the fence, which way should I jump off?
 
Ben

Ben

Moderator
Staff member
I once ended up with a Lyman double cav. mould. It had a lot of rust , inside the blocks and outside.
Lyman 35863
I bought this one from " fatelvis " here on the forum.

His photos clearly showed rust in the mold cavities. I knew what I was buying. He was " straight up " with all aspects of the sale.

I saw some rust remover a few months ago in a hardware store. I bought a bottle just for this kind of job.

Here it is ;



Here is a link to the product :

http://www.amazon.com/KRUD-KUTTER-MR...+must+for+rust

I disassembled the mold and put the mold halves into a glass jar. Covered the halves with gasoline to de-grease the mold halves and allowed them to sit for 15 minutes totally submerged in the gasoline.

Then I removed them and blew them off with an air hose.

Then I submerged the mold blocks in the rust remover ( the green liquid in the glass jar in the photo below ) :



The blocks were allowed to sit in the rust remover for about 20 minutes ( as per the directions with the product )

A bit of rubbing with 0000 steel wool and the mold blocks cleaned up really well. I lost the original Lyman bluing, but at least all the rust is gone now. I suppose that I could cold blue the blocks when they are warm and oil free ?

I think it cleaned up real well.



I wish I had taken some " before photos". I think " fatelvis " may still have some of the photos of the mold with the rust. Maybe he would add them here.



The mold cast real well :

Click to expand...

It removed all the blue from the mould, it didn't etch the metal and removed 100% of the rust. I'd do it again if needed.

Ben
 
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Ian

Ian

Notorious member
If you want to completely REMOVE the rust from every part of the die, do what CW says. That stuff is no joke.

Otherwise, if the part is blued and has rusty spots, degrease the part and boil it in plain water for 45 minutes and card off the loose rust. The remaining rust will be converted to FeO³ which is chemically stable.

"Patina" is another word for rust and filth soaked in oil.
 
P

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
First and foremost, Rust is not a reversible process.
You can stop the rusting process, you can remove the rust, you can clean up the rusted area but you cannot put metal back.
That doesn't mean a tiny bit of rust destroys every item, but it does mean you've lost a little bit of metal to rust.

For the OP, since you are fortunate to have no rust in critical areas of the dies, you probably want to clean up just the rusted areas and leave the other parts alone. So that means you probably don't want to chemically or electrically strip the entire die and run the risk of altering portions on the tool that are still intact.

There are lots of cool products to will remove rust and stop further rusting but there are NO products that will put metal back.
 
Ian

Ian

Notorious member
Naval Jelly is good for removing spots and small areas of rust. Doing so will leave sharply etched areas as P&P pointed out, and of course bluing too.
 
J

JustJim

Well-Known Member
I've had good results cleaning up lightly-rusted dies, tools, etc with Evapo-Rust. Once cleaned don't forget to oil or otherwise protect them. I've been buying it at the local auto parts store, got a gallon the other day for ~$20.
 
Elric

Elric

Well-Known Member
Evapo-Rust is totally non-toxic. You can dispose of the spent fluid without HAZMAT teams ripping your shop apart. Evapo-Rust will energetically remove ALL iron oxides. If there is pitting, it will be painfully visible. Not the fault of Evapo-Rust.... As said before, the cleaned part has NO protection from rust. Mold blocks will re-blue from heat.

I tried the paste / thick liquid, and it was very near impossible to get out of the container. Chunky as well. Naval jelly can be placed on vertical parts [IIRC]...
 
358156 hp

358156 hp

At large, whereabouts unknown.
I just soaked a battery tray from a 70 Chevelle at work in Evaporust. It turned the Evaporust a sort of purplish black color, so I tossed it, even though you can re-use it over and over. I realized that the Evaporust had crept between several layers of spray paint on the tray, and that the paint didn't come off in strips or sheets, it completely broke down to particles. BTW, the tray turned out to have been galvanized from the factory, and except for a few patches of former rust was in really good condition. I have also tried tumbling dies and such in stainless, and it worked perfectly as well.
 
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CWLONGSHOT

CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
Anyone who has a home shop or Garage bench NEEDS a bottle of EVAPO-Rust.

They stuff really is remarkable. Just soak in the liquid over night less if light tarnish and lil
More if heavy. If heavy give it a good rubbin with a wire brush to remove scale.

But as noted know, BLUEING will be removed. Also as noted pits and damage from rust WILL NOT be repaired. What is left is a etched surface once rinsed a d washed again, is ready for finish.


CW
 
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CZ93X62

CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
The outside surface areas of a few dies and other tools got a bit of surface rust during the 18 months we lived 4 blocks from the beach near the Mexican border in Imperial Beach (2014-2015). The actual working surfaces internally were unaffected, but the exteriors were. Hoppe's solvent and an old toothbrush followed by shop rag rundown put them to rights (pretty much). None needed replacement.
 
B

blackthorn

Active Member
A few months ago, I got a box full of dies that had been subjected to a leaking roof for some time (years). They were in various stages of deterioration; one set was rust-welded to the case and I had to pry the dies out. I put each set in an appropriately sized plastic jar and added warm water and citric acid. I left them for four or five weeks, shaking the jars once in a while and then drained off the rust saturated liquid. Then I put them back in the jars and covered them with Evaporust for another two or three weeks. I really expected the dies to be junk, but was amazed at the success I had in restoration. I believe only the one set is toast. It was so bad the threads were totally eaten away in spots. These dies belong to a friend and I did not have any brass available to try them, except for two sets which work. I think the fact they were used dies and likely had some residual sizing wax(?) inside may have protected the insides to some degree. The recovered dies are black now but seems they will not be a total loss.
 
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