Saeco #315 and Lyman #311466 W/Out GC's

Maven

Active Member
Just an expansion and update on my 9/22/20 post. I tried Saeco #315 and Lyman #311466, both sized to .311" and seated to just touch the lands ( Win. Mod. 70, .30-06) without gas checks and was quite happy with the results. Of the two CB.s, #315 was more accurate and I think less likely to lead the bore than -466 (more in a bit). I used my "standard" load of 8.7gr. Unique (thrown) and both Remington and Lake City Match brass neck sized in a Lee collet die and expanded with a Lyman M-die so there'd be no lead shaving of bullet bases. Both CB's were newly cast, but -466 was from the front cavity of the mould whereas I made no attempt to segregate the Saeco 3 cavity's droppings. Primers were Win. LR. Before I forget, I fired 20 #315's and 20 -466's, tumble lubed in Lar's Liquid Xlox.

With respect to bore leading, I got none after 5 foulers and 20 #315's, but by shots 32 and 33, i.e., with -466's I got enough to make me dry patch the bore (those shots are marked on the target below). Fortunately, the leading was easily removed, but returned with the next few shots. Once again, a dry patch removed it and happily, my last five shots were "lead free." Btw, on my Sept. 22 outing I got no bore leading with #-466, but I hand lubed it. Although a bit messy, it is effective and for a small number of CB's, is a lot faster than setting up the lube sizer.

Here's a pic of my targets, with the two 10-shot Saeco #315's on the top and the [10-shot] Lyman #311466's on the bottom. The two bore leading flyers are marked on the bottom right target. Whether #315 would have leaded the bore with more tumble lubing and more shots, I can't say, but for small batch testing, hand lubing works well.

I should add that I fired clockwise so that target #1 is on the left and #4, my last, is below it.
 

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Maven

Active Member
Just got back from the range after retesting both Lyman #311466 and Saeco #315 without GC's (too gloomy for pics today, but will post them soon). What I found was that #315 is the more accurate of the two (20 shots) and if hand (or machine) lubed produced very little bore leading. Ly. -466 gave too much scatter (12 shots) even at 50 yd. for my liking, but little bore leading: they were hand lubed as well. Just for grins, I also tested the Lee 30-150-TL, which I ran through a [Hanned] bump die and got almost as good a result as the Saeco, but two flyers spoiled things (20 shots, 50 yd.). Bumping them gives better results/less scatter, but it seems to defeat the purpose of that design. Namely, cast, lube load, and shoot: No sizing, etc. required. Now, if I were really serious about the Lee TL I suppose I could segregate them by mould cavity, test them unweighed v. weighed v. unsized and sized to .314" v. bumped in my Hand Die: Nah, life's too short for that stuff: I think I'll lie down until the notion passes (LOL!).
 

Rockydoc

Well-Known Member
Maven:
"With respect to bore leading, I got none after 5 foulers and 20 #315's, but by shots 32 and 33, i.e., with -466's I got enough to make me dry patch the bore (those shots are marked on the target below). Fortunately, the leading was easily removed, but returned with the next few shots. Once again, a dry patch removed it and happily, my last five shots were "lead free."

How do you determine a barrel has become leaded during a string of shots?
 

Maven

Active Member
How do you determine a barrel has become leaded during a string of shots?

I just run a dry patch through my bbl. after every ten shots, more frequently if I get a flyer. You can feel the lead and quickly address the problem, but a dry patch usually removes it. When I'm done shooting for the day, I use Hoppes #9 on a patch followed by a bore brush to remove any fouling I missed earlier. Btw, I'm not an alloy or an heat-treating fanatic anymore and generally don't get much bore leading, generally none with gas checked CB's. As I wrote in post #7, life's too short to mess with that stuff.
 

Maven

Active Member
The light is better today so I photographed yesterday's targets (below). In sum, I used neck sized (Lee collet die) and expanded (Lyman M-die) in Rem. .30-06 brass in my Mod. 70 Win. Westerner (blind magazine). Three different CB designs were loaded without gas checks (Ly. #311466 and Saeco #315) and/or bumped via a Hand [Line] bump die (Lee 30-150-TL identical to the one Ben just sold on the Boolits site). The distance was 50 yd. As you can see, Ly. #311466 was the least accurate, followed by the Lee 30-150-TL only because of two flyers. Saeco #315, OTOH, was the accuracy champ as is evident in the photo: This is repeatable, as are the other results. Btw, all CB's were hand lubed after sizing with Lar's Liquid Alox. Bore leading was minimal, but easily removed with a dry patch.
 

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Spindrift

Well-Known Member
The #315 is a wonderful target bullet. It has worked well in all my .30- cals so far! And it obviously works well for you too, Maven!
 
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Maven

Active Member
Spindrift, I used to think the original version of Lyman's #311644 (tapered ~195gr. GC bullet designed by Ed Schmitt) was the "do-all" .30cal. CB design since it was made to fit the standard .30cal. "ball seat," which I think means throat. Although a bit heavy, it shot well, but #315 shoots better, and was an absolute tack driver in my Marlin .30-30 #336, albeit sized to .310".
 

Snakeoil

Active Member
We have several shooting using the 315 out to 500 yds with great success. I believe all are using gas checks. I was using that bullet as well, but not casting myself. I was buying them raw and sizing them. The bullet shot well for me, but the flyers were excessive and unexplainable. It was not a leading issue. I slugged my bore and found it I needed a much bigger bullet. I talked about this in another thread so I'll not belabor that point.

8 to 10 gr of Unique is a common load for several of our shooters. But Unique tends to be a bit on the dirty side. I and a few others who shoot the better scores were/are using 2400. The typical load is 17gr. I've since moved to a bigger bullet in both diameter and weight with 17gr of 2400 under it and it shoots very well. But that 315 is no slouch and if I could have found it in the size I needed or in a mold that dropped the size I needed, I might have never changed bullets.
 

Rockydoc

Well-Known Member
We have several shooting using the 315 out to 500 yds with great success. I believe all are using gas checks. I was using that bullet as well, but not casting myself. I was buying them raw and sizing them. The bullet shot well for me, but the flyers were excessive and unexplainable. It was not a leading issue. I slugged my bore and found it I needed a much bigger bullet. I talked about this in another thread so I'll not belabor that point.

8 to 10 gr of Unique is a common load for several of our shooters. But Unique tends to be a bit on the dirty side. I and a few others who shoot the better scores were/are using 2400. The typical load is 17gr. I've since moved to a bigger bullet in both diameter and weight with 17gr of 2400 under it and it shoots very well. But that 315 is no slouch and if I could have found it in the size I needed or in a mold that dropped the size I needed, I might have never changed bullets.
Have you tried powder coating to make it bigger in diameter?
 

Snakeoil

Active Member
No. The limited experience my shooting partner and I had with powder coated bullets was less than satisfactory. I have thought about revisiting it with .311 bullets to see if I can get them up to .314. But the rifle shoots so well with my current recipe, that I don't have a lot of incentive to play with it further. For me, bullet casting (or buying them precast) is simply a requirement of the silhouette game. The science projects are not a primary interest. And with the current scarcity of reloading components, I'm even less interested in burning up component on experiments for a rifle that already has a winning load.