Seating die issues

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
In my ongoing work with the 44 mag Marlin I have gone to using a .433 bullet. My Hornady seater was obviously not made to handle a bullet that large.
image.jpeg
Notice the 2 diameters in the sliding sleeve used in these seating dies. The larger area aligns the case mouth, the smaller section the bullet. In the stock sleeve the bullet secrion is cut at .431, the case section at .459. Both the bullet and case were just large enough to jam in the sleeve. This made the small front band of the bullet get sized to .431 and also made it very difficult to remove the case with seated bullet without pulling the entire sleeve from the die.

I made a new sleeve that allows a .434 bullet and a .463 case mouth.
image.jpeg
Here is the stock sleeve out of the die and mine in the die. Works quite well.

Now that little step where the diameter changes in the sleeve, it is quite important you see. That step does the crimping. I made it too sharp initially which makes it buckle the case mouth rather than fold it into the crimp groove. I recut it with more taper and it now makes a reasonable crimp.

image.jpeg
Not perfect but good enough to work with. The steel used is O1 so it should last a while even if not hardened.

Would love to use my Redding profile crimp die but it too doesn't handle a .433 bullet very well. It was going to size my bullet down in the process of crimping, something I just can't have happen.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Using that because my testing shows it is what works best. I tried .434 and it wasn't bad but was a touch difficult to chamber. I tried .431 and .432 and they didn't shoot as well as .433.
Marlin micro groove barrels have a reputation for liking fat bullets, this one is no exception.
This bullet doesn't come close to filling the throat. It seats such that it is well short of the rifling too. A hard bullet with this nose shape doesn't deform much get get across the throat and self centers pretty well when given room to do so.
 
F

freebullet

Guest
Hmm. My horny 454 dies tend to size the front band down to 453. Hasn't caused any issues yet but, I don't like that it happens.

That's a heck of a fix. Great work Brad.
 

S Mac

Sept. 10, 2021 Steve left us. You are missed.
Looks good Brad. I have a Hornady seating die or 2 that are a pain to use because the sliding sleeve stick and pull out when the loaded round is withdrawn.

As a little thread drift, what is the tool of choice for measuring the ID of thing like that? I have a nice set of calipers but they have there limitations.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
I used my pin gauges. Quick and easy. I have no idea why I waited so long to get a set of .240 to .500 pins.
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
YES! Pin gages are really useful tools if you are seriously screwing around with cast bullets.
Especially if you have a lathe.

Bill
 

Ben

Moderator
Staff member
In my ongoing work with the 44 mag Marlin I have gone to using a .433 bullet. My Hornady seater was obviously not made to handle a bullet that large.
View attachment 1481
Notice the 2 diameters in the sliding sleeve used in these seating dies. The larger area aligns the case mouth, the smaller section the bullet. In the stock sleeve the bullet secrion is cut at .431, the case section at .459. Both the bullet and case were just large enough to jam in the sleeve. This made the small front band of the bullet get sized to .431 and also made it very difficult to remove the case with seated bullet without pulling the entire sleeve from the die.

I made a new sleeve that allows a .434 bullet and a .463 case mouth.
View attachment 1482
Here is the stock sleeve out of the die and mine in the die. Works quite well.

Now that little step where the diameter changes in the sleeve, it is quite important you see. That step does the crimping. I made it too sharp initially which makes it buckle the case mouth rather than fold it into the crimp groove. I recut it with more taper and it now makes a reasonable crimp.

View attachment 1483
Not perfect but good enough to work with. The steel used is O1 so it should last a while even if not hardened.

Would love to use my Redding profile crimp die but it too doesn't handle a .433 bullet very well. It was going to size my bullet down in the process of crimping, something I just can't have happen.

That's some good work Brad,

You're getting real good with your machine tools !

Ben
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Thanks Ben. I am gaining confidence and that makes my imagination run.

Pin gauges are an awesome tool. So good for determining cylinder throat sizes and in making bullet sizers. I can get pretty close with pin gauges and verify by actually sizing a few bullets. Beats polishing, running inside to the press, sizing a few bullets, then back to the lathe for more polishing.

Amazing how the right tool makes all the difference.
 

Ben

Moderator
Staff member
You're RIGHT Brad, if you've got the RIGHT tool, you can do the job accurately and quickly.
 
F

freebullet

Guest
Thanks Ben. I am gaining confidence and that makes my imagination run.

Pin gauges are an awesome tool. So good for determining cylinder throat sizes and in making bullet sizers. I can get pretty close with pin gauges and verify by actually sizing a few bullets. Beats polishing, running inside to the press, sizing a few bullets, then back to the lathe for more polishing.

Amazing how the right tool makes all the difference.

You don't have a press mounted to yer lathe? I'm shocked!
 
9

9.3X62AL

Guest
I'm another one whose life is made better by having pin gauges. I don't make tooling, but the gauges help me decide when to have some made.
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
I think it is pretty amazing what the cost. Given that they hold .0002 dimension to some
far tighter tolerance on the minus (or plus) side of the specified diameter, that is amazing.

Bill
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Had to go back to the lathe with the new part today. Bullets were sticking ever so little in the sleeve. The crimp also wasn't what I wanted. I opened the bullet portion .001 and refined the crimp section. Bullets will just slide thru so that is good. Crimp looks better too.