Rockydoc
Well-Known Member
How much does that 287308 weigh?
Show me (or tell me) about your favorite 7X57 rifles!
- Thread starter RicinYakima
- Start date
richhodg66
Well-Known Member
It was about 166 grains checked and lubed if I recall, less than 70 grains after traveling through two and a half feet of deer.
This mold was hollow pointed when I got it, I shortened the stem some. I have one of the older RCBS 168 grain molds with the bigger nose than what they make now, eventually I'll try it cast with a soft nose.
This mold was hollow pointed when I got it, I shortened the stem some. I have one of the older RCBS 168 grain molds with the bigger nose than what they make now, eventually I'll try it cast with a soft nose.
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
I have written about this many times: in the U.S.A., the 7mm-08 has just about killed off the 7 x 57. They are both excellent cartridges and the 7 x 57 certainly holds the prize in the longevity and historical categories.
Setting aside the cartridges for a moment and focusing on the bullets, there’s a lot to love in the 7mm bullet class.
In the parts of the world where Imperial measurements ruled, 30 caliber was a nice round number. In the parts of the world where metric ruled, 7mm was the similar nice round number. While those lines got blurred a bit and neither one is truly 30 caliber nor 7mm, respectively, it’s understandable how there came to be a difference between them.
In the 7mm class there is an excellent selection of bullets available. There is an even better balance to be had between the diameter, weight, B.C. and length when we get into the 7mm class. The 30 caliber (7.62mm or .308”) bullets have earned their reputation but their 7mm metric brothers may hold a slight edge.
In the perfect alternate universe that only exists in my head…
…..the U.S. military would have selected the 7mm bore diameter at the same time they selected the shorter casing that became known as the 308 Winchester (7.62 NATO). The wildcat folks did it for them with the 7mm-08.
Setting aside the cartridges for a moment and focusing on the bullets, there’s a lot to love in the 7mm bullet class.
In the parts of the world where Imperial measurements ruled, 30 caliber was a nice round number. In the parts of the world where metric ruled, 7mm was the similar nice round number. While those lines got blurred a bit and neither one is truly 30 caliber nor 7mm, respectively, it’s understandable how there came to be a difference between them.
In the 7mm class there is an excellent selection of bullets available. There is an even better balance to be had between the diameter, weight, B.C. and length when we get into the 7mm class. The 30 caliber (7.62mm or .308”) bullets have earned their reputation but their 7mm metric brothers may hold a slight edge.
In the perfect alternate universe that only exists in my head…
…..the U.S. military would have selected the 7mm bore diameter at the same time they selected the shorter casing that became known as the 308 Winchester (7.62 NATO). The wildcat folks did it for them with the 7mm-08.
todd
Well-Known Member
i've said this many times to people who ask, what cartridge do i get my boy, girl, wife, girlfriend......and i'll say the 7-08 for factory loads or 7 mauser for handloads. i have handloaded for both and shot deer for both. in my mind, 7 mauser is the way to go. in a short action(7-08) or a long action(7x57,) a 1/4 of second(time being a short vs long action) ain't that much difference to me to be re-loading the rifle.
L Ross
Well-Known Member
There in lies the rub. Boy, girl, wife girlfriend, but what about hairy chested he-men? I went on a Moose hunt with my 7x57and three other hunters, one was armed with a .338 Win Mag, and the other two with .300 Win Mags. We killed 3 moose. One bull was killed with a single 175 Nosler semi spitzer partition bullet at 2,640 fps from the gun my partners had dubbed, "The little girly gun. One bull was felled with a single 200 grain Nosler from a .300 but required a finisher. The cow, well the cow was riddled with at least 7 hits from the .338 and a .300 before she succumbed.
I do not like recoil and there was a Clint Eastwood movie where the writer opined, "A man has to know his limitations."
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
The time it takes to cycle the action is a trivial portion of the larger debate about short actions vs. long actions. (and the 7x57 is more of a medium length cartridge than a true long action but it gets lumped in with the long actions because it will not quite fit in a short action).
The short v. long action debate also includes the length of the bolt & receiver (and therefore the weight of those components) plus the overall length of the rifle.
YES, I understand those arguments may not be persuasive to some, but there you have it.
I’m solidly in the short action camp because unless you need that extra case capacity, there is no need for that extra material. That doesn’t mean the long action is a bad thing – it just means the long action isn’t always necessary.
When used in a strong rifle and with appropriately loaded cartridges, the 7mm Mauser (7x57) is hard to beat. When relying on factory loadings, the SAAMI limits are a little more favorable to the 7mm-08. I think both cartridges are awesome cartridges.
todd
Well-Known Member
recoil wasn't a problem back before my stroke. now i loathe it!!!!!!! recoil wise to me is anything that goes over a 8 lb 30-06 in 180gr factory loads is a no go fer me. i use alot of different rifles(20 vartarg to 500 linebaugh), but what i DO NOT do is recoil. i use the 500 linebaugh(tc encore in 23" mgm barrel) for an example. it will shoot a 450gr lfn gc with 16.5gr of hs-6 that goes 1235fps. recoil wise it goes less than '06 with 180gr bullets, but it will grab your attention.
i use a 444 marlin(tc encore with 23" mgm barrel) with 300gr fn gc with 24.0gr of 2400/tuft of dacron that goes 1625ish fps. i'll shoot it all day and twicet on sunday. my 30-40 krag with 165gr ranch dog and h4198 goes 1926fps and its recoil is on par with the 30-30.
my brother's friend is guy that "needs" a super improved magnumitis every year. right now he has on order a 26 and a 30 nosler, to go with with 7mm, 30, 338 and 35 magnums. he "hunts" deer close up(100 yards and less) but just in case he has a magnum(or close to it). he be better off using a 30-30. riddled is a good term for him. 4 or 5 magnum shots are the rule for him, while i do one shot on a deer.
todd
Well-Known Member
in PA and WV we don't think about the extra weight (bolt + receiver) that we carry. we are in bed(same or camp bed) every nite. now if i were in Rockies, carrying everything needed(tent, sleeping bag, rifle, cartridges, water, etc.....) on my back, then i would agree with you. the Army(which i was in) was a stickler on what i could carry. m16a2, basic loadout of ammo, 4 hand grenades, 2 smoke grenades, extra barrel for m60 or extra ammo for m60, 4 quarts of water, e tool and God only knows what else i could carry. the would part comes after could part
. would will be a pen or pencil, letter i or my girl would send, picture and whatever comfort i would carry. being a stroke able individual, my carrying days are over. it don't matter to me none if its time or weight. what matters to me is coffee!!! do i have enuff or do i hobble out of my groundblind, go 50+ ish yards to my utv and drive to get more coffee!!!! and yes, coffee is no 1, while the deer are no 2.
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
I don't really want to get into a long action v. short action debate.
The extra cartridge capacity has its place, but that case capacity just isn't always needed. The short actions have long proven their worth.
I think the efficiency of the short action cartridges is what I admire more than anything else about those cartridges. Within their realm, the short action cartridges are awesome.
Will a 7mm Remington Magnum have more energy than a 7mm-08 at 600 yards? OF COURSE, IT WILL. In fact, it had far more energy at the muzzle.
BUT- How often do you need all that energy? Now there’s a good question!
There are times and places that long actions absolutely shine. But there are also times that I would rather have a short action cartridge. They both have their strengths. Play them to their strengths
I’m not slandering anyone’s favorite cartridge.
The extra cartridge capacity has its place, but that case capacity just isn't always needed. The short actions have long proven their worth.
I think the efficiency of the short action cartridges is what I admire more than anything else about those cartridges. Within their realm, the short action cartridges are awesome.
Will a 7mm Remington Magnum have more energy than a 7mm-08 at 600 yards? OF COURSE, IT WILL. In fact, it had far more energy at the muzzle.
BUT- How often do you need all that energy? Now there’s a good question!
There are times and places that long actions absolutely shine. But there are also times that I would rather have a short action cartridge. They both have their strengths. Play them to their strengths
I’m not slandering anyone’s favorite cartridge.
L Ross
Well-Known Member
The only reason I favor the 7x57 over the 7mm-08 is the 175 grain bullet. I think that weight in the 7 made its claim to fame. Those darned bullets are augers! The magazine and throating for the 7x57 works well with the 175. Just went out in the shed and found a box of 100 175 Hornady RN and my last box of 50, 175 gr. Nosler Partition Semi Spitzers discontinued about 1990 I think.
The neighbor asked me if I wanted to hunt and kill a pair of Yaks that have gone feral and busted through the fence. They said I could have the meat, but, it's 86 degrees out. Not meat making weather. But it did dawn on me that I have no heavy jacketed ammo ready in any amount for anything right now. There's 7x57's in the tumbler and they will get annealed tomorrow. Then a case full, (almost), of IMR 4350 under some 175's. Recheck the zero and have them on standby if and when needed.
The neighbor asked me if I wanted to hunt and kill a pair of Yaks that have gone feral and busted through the fence. They said I could have the meat, but, it's 86 degrees out. Not meat making weather. But it did dawn on me that I have no heavy jacketed ammo ready in any amount for anything right now. There's 7x57's in the tumbler and they will get annealed tomorrow. Then a case full, (almost), of IMR 4350 under some 175's. Recheck the zero and have them on standby if and when needed.
Joshua
Taco Aficionado/Salish Sea Pirate/Part-Time Dragon
While I am very happy with my 7mm-08. I agree that it is limited by its throat length when used with heavier bullets.
At some point there will most likely be another 7mm that I add to my quiver.
I regret passing on a left handed stocked, rebarreled P-14, in 7mm Rem Mag. It was cheap. I also, should have bid on that 7x57mm Ruger 77 last winter, that our local auction house had.
But, what I think I really want is a 280 Rem.
I’ll come across a deal someday and one will follow me home.
At some point there will most likely be another 7mm that I add to my quiver.
I regret passing on a left handed stocked, rebarreled P-14, in 7mm Rem Mag. It was cheap. I also, should have bid on that 7x57mm Ruger 77 last winter, that our local auction house had.
But, what I think I really want is a 280 Rem.
I’ll come across a deal someday and one will follow me home.
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
I have about 20+ high power rifles; one Savage 1920, one Savage SP6 and two CZ mini's. Everything else is 1903 Springfields from 7.62X39 to 358 Norma. At this point in my life they are all toys since I can't walk more than a quarter mile. Everything else has gone away.
RBHarter
West Central AR
Now we all know that the way around the long/short debate fueled by case volume is to throw the 280 and 280 AI in the mix with a nice 284 Win . Of course whatever they called the 7mm WSM was just a 284 without the rim rebated ....... Oh wait they didn't do a 7mm they did a 325/8mm and a 270 WSM . I bet a 7mm WSSM might get close to the 7-08 .
That aside there is just something about 150 gr running 27-2800 fps that undeniably delivers the goods over and over . It doesn't seem to matter if it's 6.5 , 7 mm , 30 ,31 or 32/8mm . Alas I think the 7mm just does it best having nearly all of the same bullet options as the 30 cals and higher BCs for it . While that argument supports the 6.5 there's not 180 . I played with the Mountain Molds tool some and found the 8.5" twist in the 7mm should handle a 230 gr bullet .....like 1.7" long . (It was a long time ago)
If your 7-08 Savage 110 happens to get a little sloppy in the throat , you can ream it to 7×57AI and when that gets worn there's the 280 AI or Nosler you can't do that with a WSM , Win , or RM .
. Of course whatever they called the 7mm WSM was just a 284 without the rim rebated ....... Oh wait they didn't do a 7mm they did a 325/8mm and a 270 WSM . I bet a 7mm WSSM might get close to the 7-08 . That aside there is just something about 150 gr running 27-2800 fps that undeniably delivers the goods over and over . It doesn't seem to matter if it's 6.5 , 7 mm , 30 ,31 or 32/8mm . Alas I think the 7mm just does it best having nearly all of the same bullet options as the 30 cals and higher BCs for it . While that argument supports the 6.5 there's not 180 . I played with the Mountain Molds tool some and found the 8.5" twist in the 7mm should handle a 230 gr bullet .....like 1.7" long . (It was a long time ago)
If your 7-08 Savage 110 happens to get a little sloppy in the throat , you can ream it to 7×57AI and when that gets worn there's the 280 AI or Nosler you can't do that with a WSM , Win , or RM .
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
The 7 x 57 may be the world’s most influential smokeless powder rifle cartridge. Not for its capabilities (which are impressive) but for its history, distribution, and longevity.
The Brits encountered it in the hands of the Boers. The Americans encountered it in the hands of the Spanish. Lots of game encountered it in Africa and other parts of the world.
The conventional wisdom in the late 1800’s was that smokeless powder would move combatants farther apart and wars would be fought at longer ranges. That thinking didn’t reflect reality.
After the Great War (WWI) everyone knew that 1000 meters or more would not be the typical combat range. However, the losers had no money to develop new cartridges and the winners had no desire to develop new cartridges. So, everyone went into WWII with WWI cartridges.
After WWII there was no denying that the first-generation cartridges such as the .30-06, .303 and 7.62 x 54R were bigger than they needed to be. They weren’t bad, just bigger than needed. The shorter cartridges like the .308 Winchester (7.62 NATO) started to take hold.
The 7 x 57 held on as a sporting cartridge (where it excels as a tremendously versatile cartridge) and a few Central and South American countries continued to use it militarily for a while.
When you consider when the 7 x 57 was developed and how well it performs even in comparison to newer cartridges, it is an amazing success story. Paul Mauser’s 7 x 57 wasn’t the first smokeless powder rifle cartridge but it was certainly one of the most important in historical terms.
There is absolutely no danger of the 7mm Mauser becoming extinct, it is too well entrenched. However, it saddens me that no major rifle manufacturers chamber their new rifles in 7 x 57, at least not for sales in the U.S.A.
The Brits encountered it in the hands of the Boers. The Americans encountered it in the hands of the Spanish. Lots of game encountered it in Africa and other parts of the world.
The conventional wisdom in the late 1800’s was that smokeless powder would move combatants farther apart and wars would be fought at longer ranges. That thinking didn’t reflect reality.
After the Great War (WWI) everyone knew that 1000 meters or more would not be the typical combat range. However, the losers had no money to develop new cartridges and the winners had no desire to develop new cartridges. So, everyone went into WWII with WWI cartridges.
After WWII there was no denying that the first-generation cartridges such as the .30-06, .303 and 7.62 x 54R were bigger than they needed to be. They weren’t bad, just bigger than needed. The shorter cartridges like the .308 Winchester (7.62 NATO) started to take hold.
The 7 x 57 held on as a sporting cartridge (where it excels as a tremendously versatile cartridge) and a few Central and South American countries continued to use it militarily for a while.
When you consider when the 7 x 57 was developed and how well it performs even in comparison to newer cartridges, it is an amazing success story. Paul Mauser’s 7 x 57 wasn’t the first smokeless powder rifle cartridge but it was certainly one of the most important in historical terms.
There is absolutely no danger of the 7mm Mauser becoming extinct, it is too well entrenched. However, it saddens me that no major rifle manufacturers chamber their new rifles in 7 x 57, at least not for sales in the U.S.A.
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
I don't know that we would have suffered IF we had stopped cartridge development but I'm sort of happy we continued to experiment....
todd
Well-Known Member
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
you're right, we should have stopped at the 50-70 government!!!!!!!!!
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
My third favorite rifle caliber!