Sizing at 243 ?

[johnnyjr]

Courious if anyone tried to use coated bullets at 243 diameter. I read the article about the Lyman 86 gr Loverin and I see used all .243. Experimenting with seating deeper as well. When I got to deep the groups opened up,then with a little deeper the group tightened up again. So much to try to figure out. I limit myself to 20 rounds at the range. 5 of each..cast up another 100 today. That's about my limit for standing...

 

[JWFilips]

No! Cast bullets should be a bit fatter I size mine .246" You can try .244 - .245"
Never shot a cast bullet at the "Official" caliber size successfully!

 

[johnnyjr]

Well, maybe it was luck, I tried powder coated sized 243. And they shot good at 50 yards with 700 x powder these have 2 coats of powder coating. With gas checks. ? ?.

 

[JWFilips]

I would say Size the bullets at .243" then powder coat! Do not resize after coating! Shoot them and see the difference! You don't need checks at "Low Node" velocities! I start all my loads with the bullet in the lands! I do not crimp and most time let the bolt closing put the long OAL bullet into the lands!
Do this and you will not have as many questions....You will have achieved the optimum for that bullet and loading! Keep it simple Low Node with cast bullets is not that complicated ( just the loading discipline is to shoot well and "Safe")
If you ony have a .243 sizer send it to me and i! Will open it up for you to what you want

 

[johnnyjr]

I have a .244 as well. I got everything from mavin on here. Everything. Even the Lyman Lovering 86 mold.. plus I gain lots of information on here. One thing I did find out is I get better results with a harder bullet of 14/14.5 bhn. Maybe the twist of 9.5 or the cut of the rifling. .
I plan on doing a lot of experimenting. I'm logging everything in my 243 load manual.

 

[fiver]

if you try the jammed method be prepared to experiment with your neck tension. [and state of anneal]
that's where those LEE neck squisher dies come into play.

rabbit holes never end, and you gotta play all the angles if your gonna change something.

 

[Bret4207]

It's all fit. You shoot a bullet, regardless of Bhn, that's a little small. You get big groups. You seat it deeper and deeper until the pressure rises enough to change the dynamic fit. IOW, you got enough pressure to push the bullet to the point it "obturates" in the throat and you now have a bigger bullet.

I know I'm repeating the same thing over and over, but it really is all about fit. Just trying to save you a LOT of time chasing the other rabbits.

 

[JonB]

Experimenting with seating deeper as well. When I got to deep the groups opened up,then with a little deeper the group tightened up again.

Seating depth for cast bullet ammo for Bolt action Rifle:
.
I want to seat a cast bullet so the nose touches the lands. I will make up several dummy rounds at different COAL to determine the Best COAL for a given rifle/bullet combo, judged from witness marks on the nose. I will stick with that COAL and then work on other factors if I don't get the desired accuracy.
.
That works great for bullets that aren't PC coated. PC adds diameter to the nose, which will change when it engages the lands...changing the best COAL for your rifle/bullet combo, and if the PC isn't fairly uniform, you could have some variance with launch pressures.
.
This all goes to the theory that the best COAL of cast bullet rifle ammo is where bullet touches lands. This may or may not be true, but it's where I've had the best accuracy for typical cast bullet loads. I believe it's the best possible chance for a square launch and uniform launch to launch pressure, for a beginner to loading cast bullet rifle ammo. Once you have some success at this, and want to experiment for whatever reason, then try a shorter COAL to see if a Jump will help or hurt accuracy.

 

[fiver]

jump usually benefits from a slightly harder bullet and a faster powder, it's also a bit less neck tension touchy.
keep the 'it's all a system' thing in mind.
the design is also in play.
a bore rider or a bullet that depends on a scuff fit doesn't usually play nice jumped until you happen on that 'one spot' [usually a long way back] other than fully supported at the launch.

 

[johnnyjr]

Seating depth for cast bullet ammo for Bolt action Rifle:
.
I want to seat a cast bullet so the nose touches the lands. I will make up several dummy rounds at different COAL to determine the Best COAL for a given rifle/bullet combo, judged from witness marks on the nose. I will stick with that COAL and then work on other factors if I don't get the desired accuracy.
.
That works great for bullets that aren't PC coated. PC adds diameter to the nose, which will change when it engages the lands...changing the best COAL for your rifle/bullet combo, and if the PC isn't fairly uniform, you could have some variance with launch pressures.
.
This all goes to the theory that the best COAL of cast bullet rifle ammo is where bullet touches lands. This may or may not be true, but it's where I've had the best accuracy for typical cast bullet loads. I believe it's the best possible chance for a square launch and uniform launch to launch pressure, for a beginner to loading cast bullet rifle ammo. Once you have some success at this, and want to experiment for whatever reason, then try a shorter COAL to see if a Jump will help or hurt accuracy.

That is my issue trying to get a consistent oal . It's almost impossible with powder coating. I loaded 20 rounds today and finally got fed up with too many different readings.

 

[fiver]

dead stop your press handle against the bench or a board placed between it and the bench.

 

[Tomme boy]

That is my issue trying to get a consistent oal . It's almost impossible with powder coating. I loaded 20 rounds today and finally got fed up with too many different readings.

is it from varying thickness on the bore rider section? If it is then you need to nose size the bullets.

 

[johnnyjr]

Not sure I follow you. It's the powder on the tip of the bullet that causes varying length..

 

[JWFilips]

John,
It my method of letting the bolt of the gun seat the bullet into the lands...... different thicknesses of pc coating doesn't matter.
The only thing bad about that I have found is when the bullet is chambered it has to be shot! Extracting the cartridge without firing sometimes means the bullet is pulled from the case! That is why every chambered round goes down the range!

 

[CZ93X62]

dead stop your press handle against the bench or a board placed between it and the bench.

Ponsness-Warren uses this method to 'Set' the cam-over of their shell holder carrier. They give you a distance to set the P-200 base from the bench edge. This has worked for 22 years now.

.245" has worked as sizing diameter in 4 243 rifles so far. All of my cast rifle bullets are seated to kiss the land origins whenever possible when starting out with a new bullet design. Once in a while I stick a bullet. If I'm on a hunt I make a point of emptying the chamber through the muzzle unless I have a rod with me. Only a few cast bullets shoot better with a bit of leade clearance IME. I don't powder coat, though. Yeah, I'm one of those greasy kid stuff casters--long live White Label!

 

[fiver]

they do basically the same thing with their shot shell presses.
they have a dead stop post at the top of the handle stroke, and then another one at the bottom.

when you setup one of their machines you start with the top dead stop and adjust your seater and priming stations from that point.
the pre-crimp, wad depth, and the other crimp steps go from the down handle dead stop.

a little time consuming to setup from scratch, but if you do it in order and carefully you get 100% repeatable results if your hulls are the same length.
[which is kind of a rarity now days]

 

[Michael]

It's the powder on the tip of the bullet that causes varying length..

Get a Hornady Bullet Comparator, it measures off the ogive vs the end of the nose, works best with jacketed slugs , and uncoated cast bullets.

https://www.hornady.com/reloading/precision-measuring/precision-tools-and-gauges/lock-n-load-bullet-comparator#!/

 

[Winelover]

Cast may give better accuracy, seating into the lands. I never do. I don't do mouse fart loads, either. I load for hunting or for an an autoloader. Neither of which, you want to dump powder in the action or deal with a stuck bullet, when unloading. Another reason , I don't PC...............affects the nose diameter and is not uniform.

 

[fiver]

is too uniform.
i thought the same thing and shied away from it for a long time.
then i sat down with it and tried a few different things and got my coats .001 [total, not thick] and consistent all the way around the bullet.
part of the solution is in the cooking stages.

 

[Bret4207]

is too uniform.
i thought the same thing and shied away from it for a long time.
then i sat down with it and tried a few different things and got my coats .001 [total, not thick] and consistent all the way around the bullet.
part of the solution is in the cooking stages.

I was thinking that experience and different methods might tend to lead some people to more consistent PCing that others get. The method still intrigues me, but there's no time!