Smith & Wesson Model 625 x 4"

CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
This thread is started to prevent a complete swerve-away of the thread detailing the Lyman #452664 mould pattern. It is that context in which i viewed the 452664--as a great design for use in that revolver.

My Model 625 has been with me for some years now, and it is a jewel. This is my second S&W N-frame chambered in 45 ACP/Auto Rim. It is by some distance a far better tool. It is dimensionally correct; the Model 25-2 I had c. 1979 certainly was not, with throats at .455"-.456". The 625 is profoundly accurate with every bullet I have run through it; the 25-2 was iffy, at best.

The using services adapted the Colt New Service and S&W N-frames to chamber as fire the 45 ACP cartridge as a wartime expedient during the First World War--there weren't sufficient 1911-pattern pistols in inventory for wartime service. The half-moon clip was used to retain rimless ammo in the cylinders--another expediency that has withstood the test of time--just as the 'Revolver in an autopistol caliber' concept has. Production of 45 ACP revolvers has continued with few interruptions for 106 years, Gotta be a reason for that.

The Old Slabsides (1911-pattern pistols) had an unjustified reputation for being difficult to master. It didn't help that most service grade 1911 pistols had an accuracy standard of '#2 washtub at 50 yards'. In contrast, a large frame revolver running the 45 ACP cartridge was a very tractable and accurate combination. It also didn't help that American law enforcement was dead-last in line to adopt autopistols into service long after the rest of the civilized world was on board.

My 625 can be fired all day comfortably using full-value 45 ACP loads. I have done so several times; I likely have close to 1500 rounds through it now. I love the thing.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
they also fire the 664 in AR brass on top of 4-4.5grs. of unique pretty good..... jus sayin.

i use mine mostly as the house gun loaded with 225gr rnfp's, in ACP cases clamped together.
it does get to go for rides on the wheeler in a cross draw holster during the fall.
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
The history of the S&W N-frames chambered in 45 ACP is well known but probably worth reviewing a little bit. The wartime production of the S&W model 1917, along with its Colt counterpart, supplemented the 1911 pistols in the Great War [later to be referred to as World War I]. The history is well documented in many places, including Edward C. Ezell’s book “Handguns of the World”. The production numbers reach significant numbers of over 720 guns per day by S&W (about twice the Colt daily output). It is worth noting that S&W came up with the half moon clip (and shared it with Colt) but the S&W Model 1917 always had chambers that allowed the 45 ACP to headspace without the moon clips. Early Colt 1917 revolvers required the half moon clips for both headspace and ejection. This was later remedied.

S&W found success with their model 1917 even after the war. One can only imagine that the large amount of surplus 45 ACP ammunition and components helped that market. The post-war invention of the 45 Auto-Rim cartridge would have also been a plus. The fact that ammunition makers saw a need to produce the 45 Auto-Rim is testament to the popularity of the Model 1917 after the war. The invention of the full moon clip was yet more evidence the 45 ACP revolvers were here to stay. What started as a wartime expediency turned out to be a pretty good idea.

Al wrote, “The Old Slabsides (1911-pattern pistols) had an unjustified reputation for being difficult to master. It didn't help that most service grade 1911 pistols had an accuracy standard of '#2 washtub at 50 yards.”

I would submit that Al is correct, and those two sentences together form both a perception and some reality, neither of which was based on a flaw of the design and construction of the 1911 pistol. The number of model 1911 and 1911A1 pistols produced for both World Wars is measured in the millions. And those pistols remained in service for decades (both civilian and military use). Many shooters were exposed to shooting well worn and very tired examples of the 1911. And the passage of time only made those worn examples even more worn. This helped form a collective opinion based on experiences with the worst of old the pistols. Talk to someone that had the privilege of shooting a nice commercial 1911 or a military one worked over by a competent armorer; and you would likely receive a far more positive report.

There is a lot to be liked in a well-made N-frame chambered in 45 ACP.

As for the accurate statement, “……..It also didn't help that American law enforcement was dead-last in line to adopt autopistols into service long after the rest of the civilized world was on board.” – That’s a topic for another thread. American law enforcement held onto the revolver longer than just about any other armed group in the world. In fact, to avoid dramatic thread drift, I’ll take up that discussion separately.
 

300BLK

Well-Known Member
I bought the first 625-3 (4") Model of 1989 that I saw back in the day. 9-9.5gr Blue Dot under a 250gr LBT 452-250-WFN was super accurate.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
i was just wonderin how it was.
many books, when you can even find a load for a 250 or so, mostly show like 4 or so grs. of unique type loads.
one of the few molds i kind of look for from time to time.
i need another 45 mold like i need my pants around my ankles in church, but i'd probably part with 50 bucks for one of those.
 

BudHyett

Active Member
I bought the first 625-3 (4") Model of 1989 that I saw back in the day. 9-9.5gr Blue Dot under a 250gr LBT 452-250-WFN was super accurate.
I bought a slightly used 25-7 in .45 Colt in 1995 that was a superb pistol for accuracy. The Model of 1989 went through the S&W Custom Shop for a tune-up as S&W was trying to regain thir reputation for accuracy. I bought it for field carry and it shot so well that I bought a 625 Mountain Gun that shot as well as the 25-7.
 
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JonB

Halcyon member
Dang these threads like this...
I had plans of bringing my 625JM to the gunshow this weekend and putting a high price on it. As I read through this thread, I realized the last few shooting sessions with it, I was just blasting old misc handloads. Besides the previous issues I had with this gun, shooting various old ammo probably didn't do much for my liking this gun. I suppose I should give it another chance.
 

Ben

Moderator
Staff member
This thread is started to prevent a complete swerve-away of the thread detailing the Lyman #452664 mould pattern. It is that context in which i viewed the 452664--as a great design for use in that revolver.

My Model 625 has been with me for some years now, and it is a jewel. This is my second S&W N-frame chambered in 45 ACP/Auto Rim. It is by some distance a far better tool. It is dimensionally correct; the Model 25-2 I had c. 1979 certainly was not, with throats at .455"-.456". The 625 is profoundly accurate with every bullet I have run through it; the 25-2 was iffy, at best.

The using services adapted the Colt New Service and S&W N-frames to chamber as fire the 45 ACP cartridge as a wartime expedient during the First World War--there weren't sufficient 1911-pattern pistols in inventory for wartime service. The half-moon clip was used to retain rimless ammo in the cylinders--another expediency that has withstood the test of time--just as the 'Revolver in an autopistol caliber' concept has. Production of 45 ACP revolvers has continued with few interruptions for 106 years, Gotta be a reason for that.

The Old Slabsides (1911-pattern pistols) had an unjustified reputation for being difficult to master. It didn't help that most service grade 1911 pistols had an accuracy standard of '#2 washtub at 50 yards'. In contrast, a large frame revolver running the 45 ACP cartridge was a very tractable and accurate combination. It also didn't help that American law enforcement was dead-last in line to adopt autopistols into service long after the rest of the civilized world was on board.

My 625 can be fired all day comfortably using full-value 45 ACP loads. I have done so several times; I likely have close to 1500 rounds through it now. I love the thing.
That mirrors my thoughts on the subject also.

I really do like my 625 :
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CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
they also fire the 664 in AR brass on top of 4-4.5grs. of unique pretty good..... jus sayin.

i use mine mostly as the house gun loaded with 225gr rnfp's, in ACP cases clamped together.
it does get to go for rides on the wheeler in a cross draw holster during the fall.
Lamar--

With 2 x Lyman #454424 and a #452423 in my mould inventory--plus scads of other 45 ACP moulds on hand--adding a #452664 borders and decadence. Here--hold my beer!
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
needs one sometimes... LOL

i sold so many 664 bullets to pin shooters and cowboy players at 20$ a box i paid for both of my magma pots and about 20 other molds.
pretty much everything else i sold back then was where the profit was coming from.

the 165gr rnfp. which is a hoot in the 624 BTW was starting to come on when the gamer aspect of C-B shooting started kicking in, and it really took off after a few guys seen me and Dad shooting them half thinking we were possibly using BB guns except they seen the 45 colt brass plopping out the ejection port of our lever rifles.