Stock fit or voodoo?

[RBHarter]

Fit
What is it exactly that makes some arms just fit and hold rock solid ?
I've tried lots of different things and I have several different bases light and heavy forward and back . Length doesn't seem to be the big deal nor the comb rise or butt drop .
I'm a switch hitter , cross dominant, with a weak dominant eye and shoot both open as I never could wink my left eye .

of the 3 98's one just comes up forehand forward while the other 2 tend to support more naturally just ahead of the front action screw . Another requires a little hunting. Moms 22-250 has a Varmint stock so off hand it's a default mid-fore end hold . 24& and 26" barrels in typical Sporter profile and fixed 4-32 and 3-9×40s . They all tip in about 9# . One wanders like a drunken sailor, 2 just hang on point .

Dad's 700 Varmint Master in a wood Sporter stock with the 26" bull .890 at the muzzle hits me well about a hand in front of the front action screw . It weighs 10.5# with a 4-12×50 . Aside from the weight it's pretty solid .
A model 14 and 760 wander a little but are basically shotgun stocks and require a lot of attention to the fore end so I don't load one side .

Savages........ There's a duo of 340s one scoped one with peeps they hold way forward at 6# , 24" 222 & 20"30-30 .
The 110 ,200 Stevens and Axis get a hold that hovers around the barrel nut . The 110 requires my undivided focus for anything under 6" of wander at 100 . The others hold solid . My daughter's 110 SA 308 was a rock .

I want to love the bone stock pre 64 M70. See drunker sailor...,. Nope doesn't matter if I'm long forward or short it is better with the 8x40 than it was with 4-12×50 with the laced stock riser .

AR style it's weird. Peeps , V° , GI post , 4x32 ,A2 ,H-Bar , 16-20" , fat round ,A2, octag slotted tube fore ends are all stable. Although the 20" heavy barrel makes me work a little.

Having written this down and analyzing as I went through the bi-annual clean and sort I want to say maybe it's the grip and wrist shape ....... But the 92'&1895 and assorted Hawkins along with the Pennsylvania esk ML with the Euro-ish stocks tend to rule that out .

 

[Brad]

The Marlin rifles, for me, give much less felt recoil than a Winchester in comparable calibers.
I don’t claim to understand all the variables of fit but I can tell you when it isn’t right!

 

[Ian]

It's voodoo.

I've been building muzzleloaders all year and doing a considerable bit more offhand shooting than I have in decades. Learning how to hold and shoot really long, muzzle-heavy stuff cross/body, off the bicep, has been a good experience and helps me understand why all those swoopy, droopy, crescent butt Kentucky rifles were made the way they were. I'm still no good at it but the concept of natural point of aim is starting to make sense, not that it ever was or is useful in the hunting or battlefield, but it's helpful at the range where you're standing on flat ground, have time, and are shooting at a target level with you.

 

[RicinYakima]

Having shot Hi-Power NRA for years, learning to shoot off hand is different. The long rifles of 200 years ago were the easiest to shoot.

 

[Bret4207]

Offhand? I have to fall in with the "swoopy' stocked Pa/Ky/sheutzen-ish styled stocks. Even an early Savage 1899 stock is more better hanging offhand than, say, a 17 Enfield or 03 Springfield, much less something stocked to shoot off a bench.

Or perhaps I'm deformed...

 

[Snakeoil]

Just the other day while jawing with the guys at Charlie's gun shop, a member brought in his just finished flinter. It's a .50, with a thin, swamped barrel. I shouldered and never has any rifle or shotgun hung that perfectly. I commented about this and everyone else tried it. All had the same response. It gave me the incentive to dig out my LH flint project to complete this winter.

 

[RBHarter]

Except the 1957 M70 it has high and had even higher rings on it the rest are a mix of sights and optics of all sorts from barrel band post and U barrel huggers to stock High Point may as well be top of the handle Armalite peeps . The sights just don't seem to have an impact . It's more weird because the 3 really barrel heavy rifles really don't wander and everything ever written, about CF anyway , says they should being more suited to smooth swing . While optics take away the advantage of a peep on a 24" barrel they also enhance the heartbeat jump moreso for lefties ..... That's not what I see . I know the difference between "~~~~~ & 888" .

A guy once said "pinch the trigger and steer with your thumb" on an especially petite bull barreled 22LR . Yeah that's not a thing I can do . Wrap the sling , lean on a knee , and put it inside a gallon jug at 250-275 yd with a cold breeze in my face and a 2.5" rifle , one shot for all the beans ? I can do that , or at least I used to be able to do it.

 

[todd]

i was shooting with my friend's Dad (RIP) Winchester post 64 m70 in 270 Win and that thing "kicked"!!! my Ruger #1 in 270 is a gentle nudge on the shoulder. i had an old Savage m110 in 270 that did nudge your shoulder, not like a freight train the m70 had. after 10 or so shots, the Argie m91 in 7.65x53 will let you know the instant you pull the trigger and that is with mid power loads.

i had (BH)* Remington m700 Mountain rifle in '06 that was a "kicker" too. if you tried to hold lightly, you would be "scoped". AH** the m700 was a joy to shoot but i couldn't get groups (1 1/2"+ at 100 yards with 3 shots)

* Before Handloading
** After Handloading

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Stock design is everything!

My old Browning BLR 358 Rears up like a unbroke stallion. Its smacked three eyebrows with factory loads! I load it "down" a bit. I picked up a Ruger 77 in 358 and was pleasantly surprised it was not nearly as unbridled!! My Ruger American is lighter recoiling yet! (Plastic stock assumed)

I know a Winchester '94 in 30-30 can smack a you youngster harder then we all know a 30wcf recoils. Marlins make is far tamer.

Why? Drop in the stock!!! That Browning copies Winchester. Winchester 94 was designed before Scopes was common. Marlin 336 is built FOR a optic.

I know fellers with Henrys are experiencing like recoil as these guns are not cut for optics comfortably.

My 35 Whelen wears a stock thats almost as straight as a AR-15! The top if the but is inline with the bore. Its pleasant with all but very heaviest loads. I was happy ta see my 358 NM wears a BC stock that is also very straight.

CW

 

[fiver]

i finally cut some toe angle into my Ackley to take the muzzle rise out, also shortened it 3/4's of an inch and raised the comb 1/4".
it's down to being a pussy cat now.

stock fit is about getting yourself into a comfortable position.
head up.
arms in a comfortable position so the bones can support the weight.
etc.
where the weight is. [i added weight to the stock of my Bergagra]
where the stock lays in your shoulder pocket.
the cast.
drop
comb height
comb shape [they have like 5 different ones for a reason]
your jaw shape, eye height from the cheek bone, chest shape, and even your finger length and hand shape all need to be taken into consideration.

i can pretty much give you a numerical description of a stock i can shoot well without describing it's shape or what type of gun it's on.


anyway if you wanna know about stock fitment there's a book by a guy named rollin oswald that'll splain it.

 

[Bret4207]

i was shooting with my friend's Dad (RIP) Winchester post 64 m70 in 270 Win and that thing "kicked"!!! my Ruger #1 in 270 is a gentle nudge on the shoulder. i had an old Savage m110 in 270 that did nudge your shoulder, not like a freight train the m70 had. after 10 or so shots, the Argie m91 in 7.65x53 will let you know the instant you pull the trigger and that is with mid power loads.

i had (BH)* Remington m700 Mountain rifle in '06 that was a "kicker" too. if you tried to hold lightly, you would be "scoped". AH** the m700 was a joy to shoot but i couldn't get groups (1 1/2"+ at 100 yards with 3 shots)

* Before Handloading
** After Handloading

Worst kicking rifle that I ever shot was a 308 on a Remington action with a custom stock. It didn't matter what I did that thing just kicked the living snot out of me. The owner was scared to death of it but he was one of those pipe smoking elites that would never admit that his dream stock was a kick accentuating machine. He shot 180 grain factory stuff had me sight it for him every year and to the best of my knowledge never shot it himself at a target or a deer. It was entirely that custom stock I'm absolutely sure that.

 

[JWFilips]

I have held many original PA flintlock Longrifles. I have to admit those old Smith's knew what they were doing. I can say that at least 15 out of probably 25-30 originals, hung right there to the point if you shouldered them with your eyes closed then opened your eye it was directly on the sights!
Little need for any adjustment!
One in particular that I restored was an old cobbled together from "old parts", barn gun! Not put together by a Gunsmith, but by a Blacksmith. The stock was old, late 1700's Not sure when or where the barrel came from. it was a flint barrel but not from the same time period of the stock , probably early 1800's It did not fit the stock inlet well but was secure. I had it in my shop the better part of a year! I was restoring it to what ever it was supposed to be. This ugly barn gun just hung in your arms! Sights were always dead on if you mounted it eyes closed! It was amazing. For a 43" swamped barrel it was a dead steady hold. It was, from what I could figure a .47-.48 cal
Yes they knew something back then!

 

[Mainiac]

Stock design is everything!

My old Browning BLR 358 Rears up like a unbroke stallion. Its smacked three eyebrows with factory loads! I load it "down" a bit. I picked up a Ruger 77 in 358 and was pleasantly surprised it was not nearly as unbridled!! My Ruger American is lighter recoiling yet! (Plastic stock assumed)

I know a Winchester '94 in 30-30 can smack a you youngster harder then we all know a 30wcf recoils. Marlins make is far tamer.

Why? Drop in the stock!!! That Browning copies Winchester. Winchester 94 was designed before Scopes was common. Marlin 336 is built FOR a optic.

I know fellers with Henrys are experiencing like recoil as these guns are not cut for optics comfortably.

My 35 Whelen wears a stock thats almost as straight as a AR-15! The top if the but is inline with the bore. Its pleasant with all but very heaviest loads. I was happy ta see my 358 NM wears a BC stock that is also very straight.

CW

Probably the most accurate levergun i own,is a marlin,in 375 win.
That sucka will bruise ya cheek,with the 375449@2000fps

 

[RBHarter]

Managing recoil ......
The worst whooping I ever took was from a too short 410 . I've had a couple of 12 ga slap my cheek bone enough to know I'd been hit .
The 358 Win 98 with the 1972ish Fajin stock is very tame with a 2100 fps 35-250 . It has an inside the bow mag release that was soft enough sprung or stuck out far enough that 200s over H332 would release the mag . The 250s over 4350 don't and that's in the heart of jacketed data and speeds well speeds anyway .

The Savage 110 06' was pretty unhappy and a hearty boot over 2700 fps 150s . Reformed to 275 Rigby with a 150 about 2600 isn't a lot of fun to shoot . I really should take another 3/4" off and replace the hard but not breaking up Whiteline recoil pad .

The 6.5 Japanese type 38 is fine and mild .
All of the Carlo types work well as long as the low end is forward even when fired on the off side.

 

[Ian]

All of the Carlo types work well as long as the low end is forward even when fired on the off side.

As a southpaw, lack of observance of that little feature by stock makers has led me to take a belt sander to more than one rifle and shotgun. It doesn't take much slope at all, but it does take some or it's a cheek basher.

 

[todd]

Worst kicking rifle that I ever shot was a 308 on a Remington action with a custom stock. It didn't matter what I did that thing just kicked the living snot out of me. The owner was scared to death of it but he was one of those pipe smoking elites that would never admit that his dream stock was a kick accentuating machine. He shot 180 grain factory stuff had me sight it for him every year and to the best of my knowledge never shot it himself at a target or a deer. It was entirely that custom stock I'm absolutely sure that.

my friend (RIP) had a Remington m700 in 338 RUM and a box of Remington 250gr SP. i have shot 375 H&H, 416 Remington and a 460 Weatherby Mag, but the 338 RUM is the worst thing i ever shot!!! you could say the "kick" is like a stubborn mule. i shot it standing up and only one shot. my shoulder instantly turned black and blue and i gave the 338 RUM back to friend and i said "____ ME!!!! Gawd D___ that hurt!!!" with tears coming to my eyes.

my friend (later on) put a Limbsaver recoil pad and a recoil reducer but i never shot again!!! i think he was one of first ones who bought it on 2002 or '03.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Back in 1989 when I had my Whelen built the smith tried to talk me out of it. Recoil was his argument. He convinced me to comp it claiming horrendous recoil. I didnt see that. But went to KDF and had a comp installed. While I admit it dropped recoil to a 243 it was obnoxiously loud. I removed it in the early '90's and its never been back on. My load is a 225 Partition @ about 2400 fps. The Stock is called a "pounder" because of weight not recoil. It has a good pad on it and doesn't recoil objectionably.

When I bought my Norma Mag I was a lil concerned seeing near 80g of powder ... But it wore a Bell Carlson kevlar stock and kick eeze pad. 250g Norma Oryx bullets @ almost 2900 fps are stought but don't hurt.

CW

 

[Bret4207]

My 35 Whelen is on an "03-A3 action with a rather heavy aftermarket stock of unknown make. Whole thing probably weighs 8-8.5 lbs. Very pleasant to shoot, even with heavier loads. It's a nice straight stock and i think that's a lot of it.

 

[RicinYakima]

This is my 35 Whelen made on a 1928 NRA Sporter. I bought the rifle after someone had tried to fire lap the pits out of the barrel until there was no rifling in the first six inches. JES rebored it to .358" with his three land and groove style. Weights 9 pounds with the Alaskan scope and is a pussy cat to shoot with that stock.