TC Contenders

[L Ross]

I have admitted in digital print to you guys that I bought a .357 Herrett barrel for my Contender(s). It is the Super 14 and came with nice clean, neat, solid Redfield rings and base. My very good friend Charlie,( and Chief Enabler for this little episode in I gotta have a Contender), let me shoot his .357 Herrett at my 210 yard buffalo line. There did not seem to be any difference in shooting at them with the Tender vs any scoped bolt gun with a scope. Place the Tender on a bag rest, place the cross hairs on the buffalo, check the wind, no wind hold center, if there was some wind fudge toward he head of rump of the buffalo, whichever is the upwind end. Squeeeeeeeeeze, boom, muzzle flip, barrel drops back on bag, a satisfying clang across the prairie and the buffalo topples off the rail. Ta-Da.

So now I have a .357 H barrel and Saturday morning Ol' Chief En himself is coming to Thorn Hollow. He is bringing dies, a drill press with some gizmo to shorten cases already chucked and trued up with zero runout. Every shooter should have a gunsmith friend like this. When I say zero runout, I mean like Ian would accept. Then he has a handmade device that does a final trim, inside and out side de-burring that he calls the Brass Beaver. Charlie says when he and a buddy shot M1A's in Hi-Power competition and trimmed, de-burred, and chamfered, 10's of thousands of .308's, all set up now for the Herrett. Anyway, today I need to find a bunch of .30-30's, sort for head stamp, de-prime, clean, and anneal them prior to Charlie's arrival Saturday.

 

[L Ross]

Huh?

Oh, I have a problem with competition. Every time a shooting discipline I've ever attempted starts out fun, a little casual, a bunch of guys learnin' and havin' fun. Then the equipment race commences. Next thing you know it becomes a life and death struggle with no holds barred, no expense spared, steely eyed competitors show up travelin' the circuit, with the latest advantage in gear. I can be a slow learner but I have come to the conclusion that competition is just not for me.

 

[Rick]

That's why since day one of handgun silhouette there has been a production class. Over the counter as mfg. guns up to 10 inches. NO equipment race there. That's what the unlimited categories are for, have at it.

 

[Jeff H]

I had a Contender with 7mm TCU Super 14 barrel back in the early 80's. It was fun to shoot and the RCBS 145gr worked well in it. That was a long time ago.

If a feller was looking at buying a used Contender (not carbine) today, what should he avoid / be on the lookout for?

Sent you a PM with a link which often has what you are looking for.

If you find a carbine, buy it. It will be easy enough to sell off the stock set and barrel and keep the action. You will probably even end up getting the action for a very good deal once you've sold the other stuff. Selling that stuff won't involve a transfer either and - if you do it before the end of the year, yo just might beat the next USPS price hike.

 

[L Ross]

That's why since day one of handgun silhouette there has been a production class. Over the counter as mfg. guns up to 10 inches. NO equipment race there. That's what the unlimited categories are for, have at it.

I guess because all of our local competitions were small range affairs we all got lumped together. But it wasn't just silhouette. I was 19 or 20 years old and driving back from shooting barn pigeons one weekend with my trusty plain barrel, full choke, 870 12ga. and still had a bunch of 1 1/8 7/12 loads left. As I drove through the tiny Village of Black Creek, (population 707 and pronounced Black Crick), I saw a poultry shoot being held at the local gun club. I pulled in a soon won a couple of chickens, I didn't know you were supposed to call for the bird with your gun mounted even. Anyway you shot 5 birds from the closest line. Every one that hit 5 backed up and did it again until there was a winner.

I was having fun when a guy in a Suburban pulled in. He had a vest with stitched padding on the shoulder, he had yellow aviation frame glasses perched way up on his nose. He had a Model 12 in a wooden hard case and it had a Monte Carlo stock, checkering, and a tall ventilated rib. He strode up after paying his dollar and said, "Show me a couple." What? Who does that. Then when we shot he didn't call pull like us unwashed commoners, he called out,"Hut or Hup", like he was a quarterback or something. Well he and I ended up at the farthest line and He missed one and I didn't. That was the last chicken I got. He would slam his pump gun shut just as I'd call for my target, he'd move around on the station and I got all psyched out and eventually left.

As years went by I saw similar silly behavior at Bowling Pin shoots, silhouette, even BPCR buffalo gong shoots. I was going to say I never saw poor sportsmanship at a schuetzen shoot, but then had to slap my forehead. I don't know how I could have forgotten the most egregious poor behavior I ever saw at a shooting match. Long Hunter and I went to a shoot and only went with the intention of shooting off hand relays. Right of the bat we were dismissed as eccentric kooks, (not help by my dressing up for the event). Then as the last relay of off hand shooters were still on the line firing, the powers that be decided it was a good time to start tearing down the awnings and conduit framework over the shooting line, while some were still shooting including Long Hunter. Complete disrespect for the off hand shooters because, after all, if we were serious we'd have shot in the earlier bench relays, right?

No thanks fellas. This is why I wanted my own range, and why we barely keep score at my events. Yeah an NRA range official would get the drizzlin', well you know, because Thorn Hollow events are so darned casual we sometimes forget to declare a winner.

 

[Rick]

I ran two clubs as match director, many hundreds of matches including several as NRA Chief Range Officer for the National Championships. In all that I never saw any behavior like you describe at any handgun silhouette match. Before making the sport of silhouette sound bad you should attend and compete in a real sanctioned match. Sure doesn't sound like you have.

 

[david s]

I used to shoot Silhouettes at a range just south of L.A. at Del Zura, Poway, Ramona and my home range of Escondido Fish and game. The Escondido range was only a 100-yard course and was popular with rimfire shooters. One fellow was something of an odd duck. He was my age at the time (20's), but he was strange. What shoes do you wear when you shoot Silhouettes? He wore football cleats on concrete. Anyway, I'm pretty sure he was a rimfire shooter if I'm remembering correctly, but I do remember his footwear. And his pistol had a "Free Pistol" style grip. The grip wrapped around his whole hand. There was at the time a rule against this. Any way another member at the club knew of the rule and called the odd duck out on his grips. The two fellows got to discussing (arguing) about the grips. It became enough of a deal that photos were taken and sent off for an official ruling by the governing body. Three or four shoots later the ruling came back and because the odd duck had slightly modified the Free Pistol grips, they were allowed even though they wrapped around his hand. This didn't set well with the range member but made the silly little odd duck strut about quite a bit. Personally, I didn't care he wasn't that good of a shooter.

 

[Bret4207]

I used to shoot Silhouettes at a range just south of L.A. at Del Zura, Poway, Ramona and my home range of Escondido Fish and game. The Escondido range was only a 100-yard course and was popular with rimfire shooters. One fellow was something of an odd duck. He was my age at the time (20's), but he was strange. What shoes do you wear when you shoot Silhouettes? He wore football cleats on concrete. Anyway, I'm pretty sure he was a rimfire shooter if I'm remembering correctly, but I do remember his footwear. And his pistol had a "Free Pistol" style grip. The grip wrapped around his whole hand. There was at the time a rule against this. Any way another member at the club knew of the rule and called the odd duck out on his grips. The two fellows got to discussing (arguing) about the grips. It became enough of a deal that photos were taken and sent off for an official ruling by the governing body. Three or four shoots later the ruling came back and because the odd duck had slightly modified the Free Pistol grips, they were allowed even though they wrapped around his hand. This didn't set well with the range member but made the silly little odd duck strut about quite a bit. Personally, I didn't care he wasn't that good of a shooter.

There are a lot of odd ducks out there. They breed too...

 

[david s]

People tend to see rules in a couple of fashions. Some see them as guidelines to even the playing field others as limits to be tested. Gamesmanship isn't anything new or limited to the shooting sports.

 

[Rick]

Really? In a sanctioned match there is a name for those doing that. Cheaters.

 

[RicinYakima]

Really? In a sanctioned match there is a name for those doing that. Cheaters.

That is why we have match directors!!!!

 

[Bret4207]

Well, apparently there aren't many sanctioned matches out there compared to...un-sanctioned? I've seen some pretty juvenile behavior at everything from chicken shoots to archery shoots to trap shoots. Everyone in the world is a giant anus. All you have to do is push the right button. For a lot of people it's competition that brings it out. I'd believe just about any tale of cheating, anger, dangerous behavior at this point.

 

[L Ross]

Sorry I digressed into the competition is not for me drift. Back to Contenders.

As planned my friend Charlie showed up in time for lunch Saturday, loaded for bear and maybe even more excited than I was about the new to me .357 Herrett barrel. I skip the mundane and get right to the good parts. Charlie brought me a like new Burris 7X pistol scope with target turrets. We made about 100 sticks of .357 H brass from Remington .30-30 cases. Mounted the scope, Charlie did a perfect bore sight at 50 yards, loaded up a 215 grain bullet that looks for all the world like the RCBS 200 but with more of a point. In no tome I was slammin' buffalo silhouettes off the 210 yard rail just like I fantasized about.

Last night Charlie did a trigger job consisting of a little stoning, a little adjusting, and replacing the trigger spring with a cut down ice fishing spring strike indicator. I could not believe how good the trigger is now. Charlie understands trigger geometry, his was the M in MK-II AR-15 triggers before he sold the business. He got out his beautiful .357 Herrett Contender with his own custom made grip and full length fore arm. We took turns shooting buffalo and spotting for one another. I would run into the casting shed and reload my fired brass and shoot 'em again. What a great weekend, what a fun gun!

 

[John]

Currently have 4 frames and pistol bbls in 22 lr. 22 hornet, 357 Max (Bellm rechamber), and 45 colt. 16" 17 remington and 22 Hornet. 14" 30-30 and 44 Magnum, 14" 7tcu that someone tried to make a break with a grinder on. I cut it back to 11 1/2" and recrowned it. 23" bbls in 223 and 7/30. I really like the rifle length bbls and if I could only keep one it would be the 7/30.
Own 3 Encores and have bbls in 7.08, 7 Remington, 30-06 and 243. I bought the 243 for cheap to send off for a rebore to 358 but made the mistake of shooting it.

 

[todd]

i have 3 MGM 23" rifle barrels and 2 encore frames/high plains gunstocks. i've also got my dad's old 'tender that is a 14" muzzle brake in 7-30 waters. man, can that thing shoot!!!!! he had a Swift 2 1/2x((Swift was great back then) and a 115gr Speer hp and imr4895 that went 1/4 -1/2" at 100 yards(bench/5 shots). his only complaint was that he should not have the muzzle brake. it is LOUD!!!!

i should take the old gurl out and shoot her.

 

[Jeff H]

My handy, little 18" 357 Mag Carbine just got handier, as of yesterday.

When I ordered the barrel from MGM, I had a tough time choosing a barrel length, because I like really short, light carbines, but knew the weight distribution would make it more difficult to shoot well and would make it more of a pain in the neck to carry cupped in one hand. Adding a suppressor was part of the eventual plan, so that complicated things too.

I guessed and went with an 18" barrel, reasoning that it may help with the weight distribution somewhat over a 16" barrel, and I could have a couple inches cut off if I decided I needed to. 18" wasn't perfectly ideal, but it was far from terrible too. Now that I've added a 10.5 ounce weight to the muzzle (as well as some length), it carries and handles exquisitely! ALL by virtue of a lucky guess - not because I"m that smart.

This is now one of the most natural-feeling carbines I've ever assembled, so I'm pretty tickled with it. When the hammer drops on the primer behind a 3.4 grain charge of Unique, behind a LEE TL358-148WC (PC'd), it goes "PFFUUUT!" Closing the action is louder than firing it. I had twenty rounds through it within an hour of getting the can out of the mailbox. I had to stop and make lunch or it would have been FIVE minutes. I was READY. It LOOKS unwieldy, but it handles SO well now, especially for spoontaneous off-hand shooting.

Aside from the versatility of using a wide range of bullet weights, designs and powder charges, I can swap my 357 Max (not threaded) barrel onto it for more range and oomph, if I find time to hunt deer again. I have other barrels, but I'm a frame-per-barrel user myself. The versatility, compactness, light weight, selection of useful chamberings, accuracy,.... They all make the Contender the most positive and enjoyable shooting experience I've managed to have in all the years I've been shooting.

Sorry to go on, but school started and I've been up to my neck and haven't had time to keep up on the forum.

If I can figure out how to post a video or link thereto, I will share a video, with sound using the can.

Man, I LOVE these things!

I almost forgot that I had problems with the fore-ends being too slick, which made me tend to grip the thing like I was trying to strangle it when picking one up or just handling one. I picked up on a decoration fad from the plastic-pistol crowd and took a soldering iron to two of my fore-ends. As far as "looks" go, it doesn't look worse. As far as FUNCTION goes - it is a MAJOR improvement. I left the bottom slick so it would still slide on a bag, tree branch, my hat lying on a rock as a rest, etc. Tedious, boring, monotonous, but it was FREE and it worked a wonder. I did bout a square inch at a time, otherwise I'd be in a straight-jacket, awaiting a lobotomy right now.

OH! Acknowledgements! @Ian and @CWLONGSHOT were both unwitting, but invaluable benefactors in this last upgrade to this Contender Carbine. I've watched and listened over the course of several years and their experience was what I compared to anything else I'd read about cans and PC.

 

[John]

A long time ago, in a board now mostly lost, Felix Robbins talked about barrel accuracy nodes. He opined that best accuracy came at multiples of 8" so 16", 24" and 32" with very close accuracy nodes at the half marks. 20", 28" and 36". A contender isn't generally the tool to consider barrel vibration and that is a very useful looking package.

 

[Rick H]

Nice job on the stippling. It looks good on the plastic stock and more importantly it helps handling. I have had the argument with those who consider checkering/stippling decorative and a waste of money. Not to an old still hunter who spent the hunting day with the rifle in my hands rather than slung over my shoulder.
Alas, I am older now and spend more time in a blind than roaming the ridges. I still like the feel of checkering/stippling.

 

[Missionary]

It only takes one slippery hold to appreciate a good grip.

 

[Jeff H]

You guys are spot on, regarding decoration v. function! Or, at least I agree with you completely.

I've almost dropped these light carbines several times now, just picking them up. I had a Ruger No. 3 for years and nearly dropped that a dozen times - just picking it up. My dad gave me an exquisitely done custom '98 in 7x57, with no checkering, which I nearly dropped as I took it out of the box for the first time.

I prefer smooth revolver grips and knife handles to exclusion, but INSIST on some means of hanging onto a rifle or carbine, because of the overall weight and the shape of most sporter-style fore ends.

I'd never have put myself through that exercise in pointilism on four large panels for the sake of LOOKS. NOW, I understand why Van Gogh was nuts and cut one of his ears off! He went crazy covering canvas with DOTS!

Note that the pistol-grip area has no "traction-enhancing" feature, because I don't pick a rifle up by the grip, so it's not needed. My biggest worry was that I'd make it look really bad, but it looks OK. Up close, it looks as ugly as any stippling job. I thought about stair-tread tape, but this is so much more durable. I'm curious to see how much fun it will be to clean mud, blood and guts out of it though. I'm thinking garden hose and toothbrush.

EDIT: LOL! Speaking of UGLY, check out that cheesy cheek-riser! Substance over style. It's a cheap, elastic cartridge holder with carefully cut and stacked pieces of a sleeping bag pad. I bought a black one just for this application. One coat of spray adhesive on one side of each piece of foam and a whole bunch of cussing and consternation, getting the sleeve over the whole mess and it works (FUNCTIONS) wonderfully, even if it does look cheesy. While putting that together, I was envisioning an easier task in getting a pair of panty-hose onto a white-tail buck in a corral full of does in heat.