Tell Me How Much of a Project This Might Be?
- Thread starter Gary
- Start date
Looks like a small mill?
Part of the problem,and certainly not insurmountable is,to be truly efficient in machine "restos",you need the help of machines. The more the merrier I always say.
Work arounds tend to bog projects down.
Don't fall in love with it. Meaning,keeping your eye on the prize which should be getting it back in service. Tough to describe,and open to interpretation.
Can you tell us more about the piece?
Part of the problem,and certainly not insurmountable is,to be truly efficient in machine "restos",you need the help of machines. The more the merrier I always say.
Work arounds tend to bog projects down.
Don't fall in love with it. Meaning,keeping your eye on the prize which should be getting it back in service. Tough to describe,and open to interpretation.
Can you tell us more about the piece?
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Ian
Notorious member
Oh, the rust!
Small knee mill, far better than most of the hobby benchtops. X power feed, nice if it works. Stripping it down and getting the ways and leadscrews de-rusted and back in order will probably be your biggest challenge. Motors and belts can be replaced. Hopefully the spindle bearings are ok but the pulleys and the collet holder inside the spindle will likely need some TLC to address rust.
Others will likely have better advise than me, hut chemical rather than mechanical rust removal techniques will probably be your best bet to ensure the least amount of damage to ways, gibs, and screws. Rust is abrasive and even if you sand it flush it will still be in the pits to scratch the mating surfaces over time.
Any tooling come with it?
Small knee mill, far better than most of the hobby benchtops. X power feed, nice if it works. Stripping it down and getting the ways and leadscrews de-rusted and back in order will probably be your biggest challenge. Motors and belts can be replaced. Hopefully the spindle bearings are ok but the pulleys and the collet holder inside the spindle will likely need some TLC to address rust.
Others will likely have better advise than me, hut chemical rather than mechanical rust removal techniques will probably be your best bet to ensure the least amount of damage to ways, gibs, and screws. Rust is abrasive and even if you sand it flush it will still be in the pits to scratch the mating surfaces over time.
Any tooling come with it?
Depends on the BIG question.
Do you want a project or a usable mill right away?
That is what I was asked when shopping for a lathe, keith and Buckshot both said the same thing. I went with their advice and got a new Chinese lathe and used it right away.
Do you want a project or a usable mill right away?
That is what I was asked when shopping for a lathe, keith and Buckshot both said the same thing. I went with their advice and got a new Chinese lathe and used it right away.
Gary,if the bearings are OK,and there's a good chance they are meaning,no parts to really look for(belts can be sourced local). And the motor runs.....
We'd have it probably online in under two weeks,working a few hrs a day. Just to give you a time table. The ironic part is,to folks that insist it's too much trouble,most of your work is centered on "service" aspects that by rights,should be a clean/inspect/lube,ESPECIALLY on a brandy new machine so keep that in mind. One aspect of chiwan,ripoff engineering evident in "new" machines is a TOTAL disregard of general service. And not bashing on imports,we have some REALLY nice stuff and is exactly what qualifies the above advice.
We'd have it probably online in under two weeks,working a few hrs a day. Just to give you a time table. The ironic part is,to folks that insist it's too much trouble,most of your work is centered on "service" aspects that by rights,should be a clean/inspect/lube,ESPECIALLY on a brandy new machine so keep that in mind. One aspect of chiwan,ripoff engineering evident in "new" machines is a TOTAL disregard of general service. And not bashing on imports,we have some REALLY nice stuff and is exactly what qualifies the above advice.
KeithB
Resident Half Fast Machinist
What type of spindle taper does it have? If it's R8 that would IMHO be the best, lots of R8 stuff around. Even if its a standard milling machine taper like a #20 or #30 thats not bad. Anything else may be a problem.
Two questions I would ask myself before I bought it:
1. What will it take to make everything work in terms of time and money?
2. What will I have when it all works in terms of accuracy, ease of use, etc.?
My requirements are different than your requirements, so I won't even suggest you buy it or pass on it, only you can decide that. I am past the point of being a hobbyist, I have to look at things from a business economics point of view with a nod towards ease of use by employees. Using and depending on machines to be usable 99% of the time for days at a time is different than using it for a hobby job a couple hours every other month.
Two questions I would ask myself before I bought it:
1. What will it take to make everything work in terms of time and money?
2. What will I have when it all works in terms of accuracy, ease of use, etc.?
My requirements are different than your requirements, so I won't even suggest you buy it or pass on it, only you can decide that. I am past the point of being a hobbyist, I have to look at things from a business economics point of view with a nod towards ease of use by employees. Using and depending on machines to be usable 99% of the time for days at a time is different than using it for a hobby job a couple hours every other month.
KeithB
Resident Half Fast Machinist
Gary, the manual cover shows two head styles, one with left/right tilt only and one with that and fore/aft tilt. From the photo it looks like it is the latter model. I had to work with a small Rockwell vertical mill that had left/right tilt only; never could get the darned thing to drill and bore square to the table, and it always left steps when milling wider-than-the-cutter surfaces.
Ian
Notorious member
Nothing gets you familiar with a machine like going through one. That one has had the knee crank replaced and is on its second paint job (not to mention the motor) so has had probably had several hard lives. If they'd deliver it for $650 that would be a better deal. I certainly agree with BW's thoughts about getting it functional rather than polishing it back to new, he's restored mountains of stuff and knows the point of diminishing returns.
As Keith alluded to,his requirements are different from someone else's. Back a few years for me,even the gas to go get that mill was a tax deduction. Everyone needs to understand this,and it ain't just about equipment. I learned it from my wife about children..... they're all different,thank the good Lord.
Along these lines.... even a clapped out,peckerhead swiss cheesed table,can be of value. Think blacksmith shop,think welding shop,heck....to a typical weekend warrior wood worker a milling machine can open doors they never dreamed of.
Buy used,sell used. Also,like real estate.....location,location. In the N.E. states selling any mill is gonna be different than say Iowa or any "dry" area. This may not mean much to some folks who's $$ isn't at issue. But for others,raising families,working their butts off providing..... the chance to have nice hobby equipment is a DANG luxury. So the ability to sell it quickly can come into focus.
Powermatic has a medium towards the soft side on their cast iron generally. Machines well and has OK weldability. Get your ducks in a row for rigging..... nice HD straps,some 2x4 blocking and screw gun. I like and use pipe rollers. Flip head if possible and lower table all the way to lower COG. Mills generally aren't quite as "tippy" as newer,gauge metal based lathes but still can go over. No quick elevation changes whether moving manually or with equipment. Look in the manual closely,it may show rigging points. Most knee mills have provisions to rig from an eye somewhere "up top". Take your time,it ain't a race when moving.
Along these lines.... even a clapped out,peckerhead swiss cheesed table,can be of value. Think blacksmith shop,think welding shop,heck....to a typical weekend warrior wood worker a milling machine can open doors they never dreamed of.
Buy used,sell used. Also,like real estate.....location,location. In the N.E. states selling any mill is gonna be different than say Iowa or any "dry" area. This may not mean much to some folks who's $$ isn't at issue. But for others,raising families,working their butts off providing..... the chance to have nice hobby equipment is a DANG luxury. So the ability to sell it quickly can come into focus.
Powermatic has a medium towards the soft side on their cast iron generally. Machines well and has OK weldability. Get your ducks in a row for rigging..... nice HD straps,some 2x4 blocking and screw gun. I like and use pipe rollers. Flip head if possible and lower table all the way to lower COG. Mills generally aren't quite as "tippy" as newer,gauge metal based lathes but still can go over. No quick elevation changes whether moving manually or with equipment. Look in the manual closely,it may show rigging points. Most knee mills have provisions to rig from an eye somewhere "up top". Take your time,it ain't a race when moving.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
For $650, assuming you have a truck or truck and trailer that can move it AND a place to put it at home, I'd grab it. These days anything like that in running shape and cleaned up is going to be worth a grand at least once it's running and prettied up. You may well be pleasantly surprised at how simple it is to get it working. Getting it fine tuned is another issue, but as Ian said, nothing gets familiar with a machine like working on it.
Speaking of wore out lead screws..... it ain't the screw. It's the "nut". Dig around looking for an adjustable version. Should be some pics online. But if not,and this isn't the "only" way to do it....our '47 Wade 8A has externally adjustable screws on both cross slide AND tailstock that was proprietary to that company and one of several more reasons they get the accuracy nod over Hardinge.....
But anyway,think of a "split nut" design. The idea or technique is to almost cut through the lead screw nut,then a method to spread the two halves,effectively taking the slop out. Several ways(ha) to go about it,split it completely and run shims between is another. And DON'T think cause a machine is "new" you don't have measurable backlash. More often than not on Asian pcs. it's so lather'd up with fish gut cosmoline,and the fact that new owners aren't aware of it,they seem tighter than they actually are. Just sayin.
Or forget about the backlash and always approach the cut from the "driven" side.
Edit to add, the Wade uses a sleeve system,not the split nut. Hardinge uses neither. Which is just blooming interesting when you consider that internet lore positively states,Hardinge "owns" the accuracy market.
But anyway,think of a "split nut" design. The idea or technique is to almost cut through the lead screw nut,then a method to spread the two halves,effectively taking the slop out. Several ways(ha) to go about it,split it completely and run shims between is another. And DON'T think cause a machine is "new" you don't have measurable backlash. More often than not on Asian pcs. it's so lather'd up with fish gut cosmoline,and the fact that new owners aren't aware of it,they seem tighter than they actually are. Just sayin.
Or forget about the backlash and always approach the cut from the "driven" side.
Edit to add, the Wade uses a sleeve system,not the split nut. Hardinge uses neither. Which is just blooming interesting when you consider that internet lore positively states,Hardinge "owns" the accuracy market.
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