The paths we take

[Petrol & Powder]

It is hardly unique to reloading & casting, but there are a lot of equipment decisions involved in our hobby that put us on particular paths. For example, years ago I decided that if I was going to size bullets after casting, I might as well lubricate them in the same step. That decision put me on the path of acquiring some type of Lubersizer and not going down the path of tumble lubing “as cast” bullets. That decision, in turn, required I select a type of lubersizer. Those choices were basically RCBS/Lyman verses Star.

While we are free to change paths or even have many paths available, money and space (mostly money ) plays a big role in the path we take and the path we tend to stay on. Once you select a Star or Lyman style lubersizer, you have committed to a style of sizing dies. They are not interchangeable. The farther you go down a particular path (the more proprietary dies you acquire), the harder it is to switch paths.

Now, some folks dabble all over the map. They tumble lube, they use a Star lubersizer, They use a Lyman or RCBS lubersizer, they powder coat, etc. That drifting around provides a lot of options, but it also requires a LOT of gear. I tend to be a bit more dogmatic. I’m not sure if that makes me more frugal or makes me not as well rounded.

There are sections of our hobby that are fairly standard. For example, most reloading dies are 7/8” dies with a standard thread pitch. There are only a few primer diameters (small, large, shotgun). So, some of our equipment is very universal. However, there is a LOT of proprietary equipment involved in our hobby. Lee 3 hole and 4 hole turrets, Dillon toolheads, screw sizes for mold blocks, sizing dies, nose punches, shell holders, etc. The list of proprietary equipment is extensive.

Do you like having a choice on which path to take?

Do you wish there was less proprietary equipment in our hobby? Maybe a few more standards?

What say you?

 

[popper]

Unless proprietary equipment becomes in great demand, it eventually disappears. It is generally used to protect a manufacturer's profit (patents) or like kevlar, finds a good use and becomes a standard. Standards do two things. Interchangeability and repeatability (yea, I hate the 'bility' all the media is using) but can impede innovation.

 

[CZ93X62]

I went the Lyman/RCBS route very early in my metallic reloading start-up (1978) and casting effort (1981).
I was guided mostly by 'What was available locally' as my dominant driving force. Not real imaginative, but I was both busy and rather frugal. I am now neither of those things unless I choose to be, but my style and choices would likely not alter a great deal. Proprietary tooling Is not such a great thing for the consumer, so it is a sword that can cut in two (or more) directions.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

Unless proprietary equipment becomes in great demand, it eventually disappears. It is generally used to protect a manufacturer's profit (patents) or like kevlar, finds a good use and becomes a standard. Standards do two things. Interchangeability and repeatability (yea, I hate the 'bility' all the media is using) but can impede innovation.

I like free enterprise and innovation, but standards are useful too. The Edison base for a light bulb, a standard hose barb for a garden hose, the USB port?

 

[RicinYakima]

I would have said standards for the first 25 years of reloading, as my accuracy requirements were not very high. Pistol shooting, hunting and plinking were easy to learn. The last 25 years has been mostly accuracy and precision shooting that requires better tools than the standard commercial stuff. Some of it is really old stuff, like my Cramer lube/sizer, but it is most accurately made.

 

[PGPKY2014]

Huh, never thought about before,I just started using what my dad and older brothers were using (1967).Ihave added a lot more equipment over the years.

 

[Edward R Southgate]

The dies I use the most are 5/8" and fit nice steel handles or the 5 1950's- 1960's Truline Jr presses that I use 90% of the time. They were very standard when I started using them but not so much now. I have 7/8" dies and an All American press (bought new in 1970) but mostly only use them when FL resizing is needed. I have a NIB RCBS sizer but I have yet to take it out of the box , still using several Ideal #1's and a hand full of 45's.
My main lead pots are a couple of SAECO pots and a pair of Lyman's made to the same pattern. I have a couple of Lee pots that are full of pure lead for my .58 cal Zoli barreled musket but they only get used about once a year. I bought a Lyman 20 pound pot about ten years ago and did unbox it but have yet to melt any lead with it. I tend to use the stuff I started with . Don't think that amounts to making any choice, actually more along the lines of Not making a choice but rather sticking with the familiar.

 

[Winelover]

Never did tumble lube...........started casting with RCBS molds. Purchase their sizer. Fine, while I was only reloading handgun/carbine bullets. When I started casting for rifle, I purchased a Star. The RCBS wasn't concentrically sizing the the castings. You could visually see the lopsidedness on long castings. Wasn't conducive to accuracy, in the least bit.

Now, I use the Star, almost exclusively. I can warrant the extra cost for redundancy, when extreme accuracy is involved.

 

[Uncle Grinch]

Years ago… back in the early 70’s, my path was decided when my mentor passed away and his son offered me first choice on his reloading equipment, both metallic and casting. At that point I was locked in to Lyman/RCBS. I did pick up a Star unit, but it was so different, I quickly sold it and kept the path. Now 50 years later, I have no regrets. I still cast, resize and lube. No PC yet. Can’t convince myself to take that turn.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

I don't see in powder coating in my future.
The Star sizer has been very tempting at times but I'm heavily into the RCBS/Lyman sizer dies, so it doesn't make sense for me.

 

[Joshua]

Four years in. Using Lee push thru sizers almost exclusively. I have just bought the conversion bushing and holders for the newer style of Lee Breech lock push thru sizers. These sets sell for an average of ten dollars each.

I primarily use 45/45/10 or powder coat. Very occasionally I pan lube.

I bought a used Lyman 45, I have never used it.

I’m glad that there is diversity in our equipment choices. I’m sizing and “lubing” much differently than most of the previous posters. I don’t use a Lubersizer, and probably won’t at this point unless a real need arises, such as nose sizing or some such thing.

I like RCBS dies. I like being able to swap parts from different die sets if necessary. If I could standardize anything about my equipment it would be to have all my die sets be RCBS. But that is only in my shop. You all can use whatever you want to. I don’t want all die set in the world to be the same.

 

[Tomme boy]

I use whatever I can get cheap. Usually. I don't use conventional lube anymore. I tried tumble lube and all it gave me was leaded barrels.

 

[Snakeoil]

I prefer standardization for the most part. But I do have a Dillon Square Deal B loader for pistols and it uses Dillon dies. But I don't care because pistols are not things I experiment with. Most of my pistol shooting was action pistol in its various forms so being able to load large quantities in short periods of time was key. The loader was also a steal at the time.

For rifles and cast bullets I use a 450 Lyman for sizing and lubing. We just had a discussion about powdercoating bullets and standing them up on a cookie sheet to bake them. Rifle bullet will easily tip over and we all concluded that we'd end up in a home, drooling into a cup if we tried to PC our rifle bullets.

A multi-stage press brings compromises with it. I just witnessed it with my buddies Brown Bair 3 position press. The columns are worn so the shell carrier is tipping slightly. For years I used a cheap Lee press for BPCR since I did not size nor did I seat bullets. The press pretty much compressed powder and that was it. I loaded my .30-06 rounds on that press when I started shooting that rifle. I inherited a virtually new Rock Chucker and have used that since. I use Lee dies for the most part. I modify/improve them as required. I'm not a benchrest shooter so I don't need super fancy dies.

 

[richhodg66]

I have several Lyman 45s and a couple of 450s. Never had an RCBS, but do have an old Herters which uses proprietary dies. Haven't set it up and only have a few of the dies, but since one is a .358 which is generally a useful one, I will likely set it up at some point and leave it.

I'v actually been using the liquid alox more the past few years, good stuff with a this coat. On rifle bullts, I usually dip them to keep the noses clean.

I won't be nail polishing bullets any time soon, can't see how it's easier or better.

As to presses and dies, I have a rather eclectic bucnh of stuff including several which use proprietary shell holders. Yeah, you can get adapters, but I have enough of the old style Herters ones that I can use. Working on the Lyman J style ones now for an All American turret.

 

[L Ross]

Started out with a Lyman 450back in 1975, accumulated a lot of dies and nose punches. Many years later I started buying used Stars whenever I could get them cheap. Soon I had 6. I sold two, reluctantly to friends. I still have 4. I gave my Lymans away over the years to either newbies or guys with financial issues. I don't miss them, but I did like the gas check seater.

I have so much stuff, so much, and it is time to down size. I need to seriously evaluate what I really want and need to shoot. After that I can evaluate which moulds to keep, and what other items can be culled. I most likely will offer stuff to my in person shooting buddies and then here, to my digital shooting friends.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

I wonder if there are people that purchased the old Lee 3 hole turret press and decided to stick with that after they acquired a bunch of turrets?

 

[Brad]

I spent a few grand on a lathe to buy freedom. Too cheap to pay $50 each for Star dies so I now make my own for about $8. I make my own Lee push they does for $7 too. I went from a few Star dies to well over a dozen.

Dillon toolheads and conversion kits do keep my from a 550 to a 750.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

Before I purchased a Dillon 550 many years ago, I did a lot of research. I have loaded on other people's presses, including a 650 and 1050. I wouldn't trade my 550 for either. So I know what you mean by 550 toolheads and conversion kits keeping you on the 550. Once you get a small collection, it seems foolish to switch to a different platform.

Snakeoil wrote about the Square Deal B and I agree that was a great deal for a pistol cartridge, auto indexing, progressive press. The proprietary dies scared me away.

 

[Jeff H]

I wonder if there are people that purchased the old Lee 3 hole turret press and decided to stick with that after they acquired a bunch of turrets?

Yep.

When the "four-holer" came out, I already had quite a few "three-holers" populated with dies for more guns that I could keep up with. There was no way I was adding a second press (third, because I have a single-stage too), or replacing all the three-hole turrets so as not to mess up the uniformity of my system just because something new came out.

I have quite a few three-hole turrets, but now only have five sets of dies set up, one of which (the 223) I very rarley use. So, really down to four three-hole turrets, plus a couple extra for the universal neck "expander" (actually only flares), decapping die and a couple collet crimp dies. It works as well as it did in '82 when I got it for under $50 and extra turrets were $7.

The new four-hole turrets are a great idea, but it wasn't/isn't worth disrupting an already simple, efficient and compact system. I used the three-hole turret press as a portable "hand-press" for a few years, living in apartments, while in the Army.

 

[Mitty38]

I have an old style, 4 hole lee, because I started with it. It came in a kit for doing 357/38.
But now often I only use 3 holes.
I had an old single stage given to me to size bullets with.
While de-priming one day. I discovered by accident that the single stage drops the primers straight down every time and I can catch every one of them. Since I load in my living room that is pretty important.
Prefer that, as apposed to the 4 hole. Which scatters the room with them. Regardless of any effort or modification on my part.
So my 1st hole on the turret press is usually left empty and I just prime on that stroke. Using the Lee priming arm.

For rifle, I find I get a lot better loads from the single stage. No flopping around of the turret or the die. Weigh each charge or drop with an independent powder drop, so no need for a powder thru the way I do rifle.
Sizing and de-priming is souch easier and faster with the single stage for me. Especially now that Lee copied the others locking nuts added a twist, and came up with a good locking nut.

I kinda like the old Lee bullet sizers because I tumble, pan lube, and powder coat. So one sizing system for all three.
I have other branded dies and moulds much thanks to you fellows.
Got rid of the Lee scale once I got a Lyman one. Not because it is better but the Lyman is bigger a little sturdier and easier to use with my fumbly sausage fingers.

I have built on the Lee system, making tweeks with other branded stuff or mods as I go, and learn.

Not because I figure Lee is best.
But because that is the girl that taught me to dance, and she continues to put out. So besides a little side affair with Lyman or Reading. For what Lee can not do for me .
Lee still pretty much is my steady.