The weight of a bullet bullet.. part two
- Thread starter castmiester
- Start date
Not really. Prices for certain things in certain parts of our country have very little to do with supply and demand and more to do with government "fiddling".
If I say any more, it will definitely devolve into politics, so I'll leave it at that.........................
If I say any more, it will definitely devolve into politics, so I'll leave it at that.........................
CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
Agreed, obssd1958. We are beset by wonks that love to turn wrenches on things that are unbroken and functioning well.
As a caster/shooter, the as-cast weight of the finished product is not nearly as critical to me as the as-cast or finished diameter from a given cavity. Fit is king--if it doesn't fit, it likely won't shoot worth a flop and likely WILL CREATE A LEAD MINE that is a PITA to harvest. I prefer root canals and spinal taps to leaded bores......but that's just me.
As a caster/shooter, the as-cast weight of the finished product is not nearly as critical to me as the as-cast or finished diameter from a given cavity. Fit is king--if it doesn't fit, it likely won't shoot worth a flop and likely WILL CREATE A LEAD MINE that is a PITA to harvest. I prefer root canals and spinal taps to leaded bores......but that's just me.
burbank.jung
Active Member
I just cast 40:1, 30:1, 20:1 lead to tin bullets. As I added more tin, the weight decreased slightly. Maybe cast some alloys with more lead and graph where the increased lead in the alloy and weight leads to your desired bullet weight. If you think the bullet is getting too soft, maybe add a gas check or water drop your bullets.
You can water drop or even oven heat treat a Pb/Sn alloy all day and you won't harden them, It's the Sb in the alloy that allows hardening by quenching.
L Ross
Well-Known Member
Perhaps I am misremembering, but I thought water dropping only hardened if there was arsenic in the lead. Lead tin would not harden.
Oops, Rick beat me by a few seconds.
L Ross
Well-Known Member
I was pretty sure Fryxell said arsenic was even better than antimony.
Mitty38
Well-Known Member
Correct me if I am wrong.
But was not arsenic used in hardened shot. As a grain strengthener. Because rapid quenching, nor large amounts were not necessary for it to work well?
Because by the time the shot got to the water catch, at the bottom of the tower. It was already cool beyond the point where antimony and quenching would be worth using?
Think I read that some where. I may be wrong correct me if I am.
But was not arsenic used in hardened shot. As a grain strengthener. Because rapid quenching, nor large amounts were not necessary for it to work well?
Because by the time the shot got to the water catch, at the bottom of the tower. It was already cool beyond the point where antimony and quenching would be worth using?
Think I read that some where. I may be wrong correct me if I am.
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JonB
Halcyon member
"In addition, arsenic (As) is commonly added to industrial lead-tin-antimony alloys to improve the strength (this strength enhancement is only observed when As is added to a Sb containing alloy, As is virtually worthless in the absence of Sb). Arsenic also significantly enhances the ability of the alloy to be hardened via heat treatment. All that is needed is 0.1% (more does no good). Wheelweight alloy commonly contains about 0.17% As."
Mitty38
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the post. Clears a lot up!
L Ross
Well-Known Member
You ever load up a bunch of tear shaped shot? We did and shot it in smooth bore muskets and fowlers. Patterned surprisingly well, the holes in paper seemed to show a shuttle cock effect.
fiver
Well-Known Member
yep arsenic is a surface tensioner.
back in the olden days, they made 'swan shot' by simply pouring molten lead through a strainer over a bucket of water.
you got that tear dropped shape but it worked.
the other method to get more round shot was to pour out a sheet of lead [about yea thick] then chop it into squares [yea tick and yea wide] those squares were rolled between two sheets of steel to round everything out.
back in the olden days, they made 'swan shot' by simply pouring molten lead through a strainer over a bucket of water.
you got that tear dropped shape but it worked.
the other method to get more round shot was to pour out a sheet of lead [about yea thick] then chop it into squares [yea tick and yea wide] those squares were rolled between two sheets of steel to round everything out.
burbank.jung
Active Member
Thanks Rick. I must have forgotten or missed that part in my reading. I thought either in the alloy allowed water quenching. I assume, the more Sb in the alloy, the harder the alloy will be, yes? But I think the hardness will subside overtime.
burbank.jung
Active Member
I have assumed that water dropping PC bullets would harden the bullet. Am I correct?
burbank.jung
Active Member
Wouldn't water dropping in ice water than tap water (not from a cabin tap in the winter..) make the bullet even harder?
Yes, and also more brittle. Antimony is far harder than lead, it is also extremely brittle, that's why Lino bullets shatter on steel targets. No, air cooled Pb/Sb bullets won't lose much hardness over time, but quenched bullets will very slowly age soften. I tested WW+ 2% Sn oven heat treated to 30 BHN, after 10 years they were 26 BHN so yes, they age softened.
How hard are you trying to make these your bullets? And why? Too hard for the application can and will cost accuracy. What are you shooting?