Thinking about the age of Ctgs

[KHornet]

I am approaching 80, and I am shooting some cartridges that are well over 100 years old. Even the 223 is about 40years plus. (Would like to know where the last 40 years went). I shoot Hornets, 222, 223, 22-250, 243, 6.5x55, 7x57, 30-30, 308, 30-06, 7.62z54, 8x57, 375H&H, 45-70, 380, 9MM, 38S, 357, 44S, 44Mag, & 45Colt.

Gives me the capacity to shoot game from pdogs, to Cape Buff, and most anything inbetween. Have been a reloader and caster for well over 50 years, and have watched dozens of new marketed cartridges come and go. There was little or no need for most of the now for all practical purposes to be developed except to keep the gun writers happy. One exception (IMO) was the 358Win, which was poorly marketed.

That said, more power to those who are happy with the cartridges that have been developed, marketed, and
gone by the wayside of time. BUT, it keeps the gunwriters happy.

Paul

 

[quicksylver]

Paul ..I tend to agree with you....but considering the advancement in propellants and bullet designs/construction....I think cartridge development is necessary to keep up with or take advantages of these advances...agree some work...some turn out to be duds...heck if no one tried we wouldn't have smokeless powder, rimless cases, bottle neck cases or jacketed bullets...orbolt guns or semi's etc...time is the best trial for all this ...and yes in the mean time the writers and manufactures make out like bandits...Dan

 

[KHornet]

Yep, Dan, I have a problem of keeping up with new powders, and powder development. If I had just one pound of each powder that is on the market, I don't know if I would ever have time to test them all.
I could have as well written about powders, being an advocate of 2400, Unique, and Bullseye at least as a basic for Cast Rifle. Can't recall who said it, but sort of reminds me of whoever said: "So many women, so little time!"

Paul

 

[Ian]

What do you mean, the 25/27/30/33WinchestersupershortextrastumpyRemingtonshortsquatultraepitomemagnnanoumousmagnums aren't the bestest thingies ever conceived, making all else stone-age by comparison?

 

[quicksylver]

Paul said: Can't recall who said it, but sort of reminds me of whoever said: "So many women, so little time!"


Possibly a past or present POTUS..?

 

[RBHarter]

Being just 51 .....
I have just 2 cartridges less than 50 yr old .
Now that I'm thinking about it I only have 2 platforms who's current production type is less than 50 yr old , although the source design is just over 50......Maybe. Of 3 score or so only 6 hail from this century . The most modern shotgun is a BPS with the march of time I have 6 over 100 and 1 over 150 yr .
I have great taste in guns !

 

[Sendaro]

I have to agree with Ian's comment --->What do you mean, the 25/27/30/33WinchestersupershortextrastumpyRemingtonshortsquatultraepitomemagnnanoumousmagnums aren't the bestest thingies ever conceived, making all else stone-age by comparison? WOW did those cartridges fall flat on their face. Those cartridges are in my opinion an attempt to model after the 6 MM PPC and the 6BR, and cash in on short & fat. They made claims that were way over the factual performance. I remember working with a Winchester 300 Short Mag and thinking after many tests that it was a short fat 30-06. Way back in high school at the Friday Night school dances I decided that short fat things held no interest for me. Looking back 50 some years after making that decision I find no regrets!

 

[JWFilips]

The looks of those squat fat magnums are what sold them! Made game animals shiver in fear!

 

[Brad]

Yet the 300 BO is a nice little cast bullet cartridge.
Each round fits a niche. Whether or not that niche exists in your "world" depends upon you.

No interest in big magnums at all but some of the newer target rounds are intriguing.

 

[Ben]

I'm really glad that the dose of " magnumitis " that I had back in my late 20's is over now.

Long live the 30-30, the 7 X 57 mm, the 06' and the 358 Win.

Ben

 

[Sendaro]

Ben,

I agree with you about the big magnums. I use them for long range big game and on occasion woodchucks at range in excess of 500 yards. You make mention of the 300 BO That should be a great cast bullet cartridge. Looks what has been done with the 30BR + cast bullets. A rifle is after all a tool and there is no one tool that does it all. That is part of the fun. However when the bean counters get their heads together and start promoting things they know little about sales with spike for a short while,and when the cat is out of the bag the sales take a plunge. They just can't all of us all of the time.

Talk about a nice little cast bullet cartridge for a rifle, well how about a 30 cal on a necked down 357 max case? The Schuetzen boys have the 32 CPA. That's a great little cast bullet cartridge. Check out the CPA rifles and I think you will find some interesting cartridges and rifles.

Sendaro

 

[Ian]

If it weren't for AR-15s I probably never would have bought a rifle chambered in 300 Blackout. The .30-30 has been filling that niche nicely for something like 125 years.

 

[Ben]

Ian,

The old " 30-30 " can go from child mild to very potent real quick.

If you like cast bullets and are an avid reloader , you'll really enjoy the 30-30.

Ben

 

[9.3X62AL]

Roger that, Ben. The 30/30 WCF does a lot of things very, very well. EVERY one of the several deer I've harvested could have been taken with that caliber, and 3 of them actually were. It is my some distance my favorite 30 caliber cast bullet rifle cartridge.

Very few of the calibers and gauges I refill were birthed after I was--almost 62 years ago. Only 223 Rem, 32 H&R Magnum, 40 S&W, and 10mm Auto come to mind.

 

[Ben]

The old 45-70 ( 1873 ) is well over 100 yrs. old.
It can knock a deer off its feet about as quick today as it could knock an indian off of his horse 120 yrs. ago .

Even the old 45-70 couldn't win at The Battle of Little Big Horn.
Too many Indians ( possibly as many as 3,000 ) some of which were armed with Winchester lever action rifles.

200 Troopers died that day.

Ben

 

[Brad]

I tend to use mostly cartridges developed before 1950 but there are a few newer cartridges that intrigue me. Interesting thing to me is that they are re mostly smaller rounds. 32 H&R and 327 Federal are a couple of them.

Might be that our love of cast bullets lends use to getting closer to game and leads us away from the super mags?

 

[fiver]

I think I tend to look at cartridges a bit different than many others.
[yeah, yeah, I know.]
efficiency plays a part in my mind of how good a round really is.
put a quality bullet in something like the 7X57 Ackley round and you have a very efficient yote/deer/elk killing tool out to 300yds.
okay I'm a bit biased on that one, but I have put that theory to the test a few times.

I have watched some very good rounds get kicked to the side over the years or the 'inventors' just flat screwed them up from the beginning.
Remington has base scratch designed some very,very good cartridges then jacked the pooch on the rifle end of things.
their 6mm Remington [come on man a 6mm varmint only rifle]
the 260 Remington [once again are you serious? 120grs only twist rates]
their saum rounds.
excellent idea, and very nearly efficient rounds.
then they drop the ball on promotion, and production, and throw them under the bus and forget about them.
don't even get me started on what they done to the 280 AI round.....jezuz.

then I see some good rounds just sit there and die of apathy.

no 25-223 or 223-6mm barrels for the ar rifles?
some of us would like to shoot A more streamlined 60-100 gr bullet at 2400 ish fps, in an accurized AR platform.

 

[oscarflytyer]

54. Shoot/load for these. No longer anything monster magnum. And only two I ever had were the 300 WM that was my dad's and 44 Mag. Rebuilt shoulders won't take it anymore, and I enjoy shooting the milder stuff a LOT more, plus they kill deer just as dead! And all but 3-4 get mostly all cast bullets.

22LR, 22 Mag, 222 Rem, 223, 6.5x55, 284 Win, 30-30, 300 BO, 300 Sav, 308, 30-06, 7.62x54, 32 WS, 8x56R (bit of a thumper!), 35 Rem, 38-55, 45-70, 380, 38 SPC, 357, 44 WCF, 44SPC, 45 ACP & 45Colt.

 

[RBHarter]

If I can't do it with 1 of three 45s , Colts, Schofield or ACP , in a revolver I probably shouldn't have been there . The 38's , short or Special , should handle most of the house keeping and if they won't I don't think a 380 or 9mm Lugar/Parabelum/NATO is going to help much .
All I get from the new whizbang 308 that I can't get from the 06' is a 1# lighter short action rifle and 358 brass I don't have to ream .
The 264 WM is the only Mag I have and it will be something else before I'm done with the FN 98 it's attached to . Talk about being able to reach out and touch something , I loaded an old 140 power point to 2900 fps , a little above a start load of H1000 . Which puts dead even with the 06' and 308 out to about 300 yd where the 6.5 BC really begins to make hay . I'm not so sure that 5" exit wound in a 140# pig was necessary but it was pretty dead pretty quick .

The 6.8 is a far better AR round for all of the stuff I expect a rifle to do inside 200 yd than the 223 . I hold no malice toward the 223 I have a couple of them and a 222 . It's just more of everything right up to being a 30-30 fed high tech super slick go fast in the adult tinker toy .

I don't know why a guy would need any more than a 3" 12 ga and frankly the 2 3/4 is plenty of you have any skills at all but I back the Model 12s ,1916,57' and 68' , with 16ga M37 ,1965 , and a 30s vintage 620 20ga Stevens .
S&W built a fine revolver in 1918 , no I don't care that I need moon clips or fat heads to get the most speed out of reloads .

A gun guy should have a Winchester lever gun , in every model , even if it's a knock off . Being both cheap and distracted by shiny things I kick myself for not doubling my money on that 94' that was $25 more than the Marlin ,both in 357 . Redemption has come along and placed a pair of knock off 92's in 45 Colts in the safe so I cry less often about missed opportunity.

I lusted after an A5 for a couple of decades even after a bout of buy the 1100 it's the cats pajamas you'll fall in love .....Sucker...... I scored 1 . A white reciever Belgian Mag .....Now to find a proper bbl to fix the quadruple sins committed .

Wait this is about cartridges isn't it ........
The oldest has to be the 45 Colts but maybe it the 38 short for pistols . True oldest has to be ........ Are we counting self contained cartridges or just reusable cased ammo , if it's just self-contained ammo then it has to be the 1866 Chessipot . If we're looking at reusable cases then it's a 12 ga I'm certain . As for rifles the 7x57 bests the 06' by just a few yr .

 

[waco]

I'm into the mellow stuff for the most part. I do own a big heavy .338 Lapua Magnum I use for extra long range shooting. That's just for fun stuff. I like classic rounds and rifles.
Most of my shooting consists of .221 Fireball, .223, .22-250, .308. 30-06, 45-70, .38/.357/, 9mm, 45acp, 45colt, 44Mag....Oh yeah, I have a very sentimental tang safety Ruger M77 in 257 Roberts that was my Uncles rifle. I have his matching .Ruger M77 tang safety .22-250 as well.