What is better made, or more useable, now than in the years past?
- Thread starter RicinYakima
- Start date
Most of the things we have that are better today are better because of better technologies others have already mentioned in this thread. Computers are at the root of it - we can crunch numbers faster. This has allowed us to build better tools, with which we can build better tools, with which we can build better tools.....
I specifically remember being amazed that I could draw (draft) so much better and faster with CAD. RB, this has a lot o do with what you're talking about. The next thing to amaze me was that it didn't make sloppy, careless and lazy designers any better than they were in the days of real wooden pencils and T-squares - it just let them slop lines together faster and allowed them to get away with more. For a long time I insisted that anyone running CAD must have first done manual drafting because that weeds out the worst of the lazy-minded and builds good OCD habits. For a while, I got my way but eventually, NO ONE was doing ANY kind of manual drafting.
Then, I fought the old greasy finger thing for years - slapping patties for touching my screen but now, swiping, pinching and tapping a screen is how things get done, so no one understands why I get so irritated when someone touches my screen. Part of a lost art? There are no consequences to to a certain level of sloppiness and brain-laziness, so - little appreciation for how what we are emulating with a computer really works. Although I TEACH technology, I'm branded as a Luddite because I insist that anyone emulating something on a computer (ladder logic) MUST understand how the real stuff works first. The cool part about this is that while many students balk (as do their tuition benefactors) because they want to get right to the cool and important stuff, they quickly become engrossed in how things work. Once they have a chance (meaning I force them) to play with sticks and rocks and negotiate the attendant physical limitations to make something work, they're hooked and they "get it" and make much better pretenders when emulating with a computer.
I'm probably fighting a losing battle but I am a big fan of technology - I just insist that we must master it so that it does not master us.
Sorry for the philosophical rant. I'll get down off my soap box before someone decides to push me off it.
fiver
Well-Known Member
no need to get down I completely agree.
on those same lines I think some early apprentice architects need to spend some time actually installing their product.
you can draw all the fancy lines you want but an air duct running north and south in a 18x18 space is gonna block everything else running east and west no matter how much you insist that 19"' ceiling drop is plenty of room for everything to fit.
on those same lines I think some early apprentice architects need to spend some time actually installing their product.
you can draw all the fancy lines you want but an air duct running north and south in a 18x18 space is gonna block everything else running east and west no matter how much you insist that 19"' ceiling drop is plenty of room for everything to fit.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
While not nearly as high in quality as the 1952 model I'm married to, there sure are some pretty girls running around today
(no pics attached, use your imagination)
..
Heck of lot more slutty ones I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole running around, that's for darn sure!
Ian
Notorious member
Jeff, I enjoyed your post. You described the downsides of instant/preprocessed/microwavable everything. Dad and I were marveling over the safety features of his new Honda Accord, such as it can read speed limit signs and won't let you change lanes into another vehicle. I said this sort of technology makes a seasoned driver more safe, but in one generation will make all drivers less safe. The folks who learned to drive in a '64 Galaxy wagon with 3-speed column-shift, manual steering, bias-ply tires, lap belts, and 4-wheel drum brakes understand the concept of mass in motion, not pulling out in front of a cement truck with no margin for stalls or backfires, and how to anticipate stops rather than cram the brakes as an afterthought. It was also pretty tough to bang out text messages while shifting gears, making constant steering corrections, checking mirrors, and maintaining an awareness of everything out in front of you as far as you can see in case you have to react because you can't stop from 65mph in 37 feet on ice. The headlights sucked back then, too. Traffic fatalities are fewer now due to better roads and safer vehicles, but NOT improved driving skill.
What I see less and less of anymore in people is philosophy. Philosophy requires a knowledge fund, an experience fund, and a lot of good old fashioned pondering. Few have developed a strong mental backbone to support meaningful opinions, moral guidelines, or personal sense of purpose. The result is shallow, wishy-washy, entitled snowflakes unfit to exist within a capitalist republic. WWII vets who paid for our freedom and comfort with blood made it so good for their great-grandchildren that today we get indignant if we lose cell phone sevice for two minutes on a country drive or are asked to and have no concept how good we really have it. Something about the results of "shielding men from the effects of their folly" comes to mind. The sheltered child remains soft and dependent. Modern conveniences are in many ways a double-edged sword.
What I see less and less of anymore in people is philosophy. Philosophy requires a knowledge fund, an experience fund, and a lot of good old fashioned pondering. Few have developed a strong mental backbone to support meaningful opinions, moral guidelines, or personal sense of purpose. The result is shallow, wishy-washy, entitled snowflakes unfit to exist within a capitalist republic. WWII vets who paid for our freedom and comfort with blood made it so good for their great-grandchildren that today we get indignant if we lose cell phone sevice for two minutes on a country drive or are asked to and have no concept how good we really have it. Something about the results of "shielding men from the effects of their folly" comes to mind. The sheltered child remains soft and dependent. Modern conveniences are in many ways a double-edged sword.
Rally
NC Minnesota
Brett,
Look at the Ski Doo Tundra or Skandic for utility type sleds. I'm not crazy about the new Rev frame on the Tundras the last 5 or 6 years, but they go where you point them. The older tundras are tanks from 1990 - 2010. They bring a premium used because they just don't die. I have a 1991 short track and a 2009 long track that have both been under water and have just replaced plugs, belts, throttle cable, and a fuel pump. Wore the track out on the 1991 and cost me 240.00 for a new one, of better design and deeper lugs. Was at a trappers convention a couple winters ago and there were 5 Tundras, in trucks, in the parkinglot. You have to ride them in deep powder, the 15" wide tracks are kinda narrow after you've owned a wide track. Wrap around bumpers and belly pans come stock. Elecric start is an option but I've only ever seen one so equipped.
I'm riding a 2010 Skandic wt (20x 156 x 1,5") and as happy as a pig in mud. It has reverse (rear of track oscilates when in reverse, so climbs instead of pushes snow) electric start, tool box under the seat, and the 550F engine (two stroke with oil injection), 8" wide polymer front skis, stantion front struts (really handy in brush and cattails). Has high and low range and reverse (life saver in the bush) They also make a 24" model that goes by Super wide track, but has too much push for me in the bogs when the snow gets deep. You have to slow down to turn in powder, but if you want to move a fish house or skid logs, that's the one to get. They offer bigger engines in both models, with a 4 stroke 600 Ace, with no pull start, and a 900 cc that is too heavy for my uses. If I was buying a new machine today I would get a Expedition model, which is a Skandik WT with independent front suspension, just for a better ride out in the open and better handling on hard pack. The older I get the more I appreciate the bigger machine and it's ride. The Skandic also comes with a two up seat with back rest but it's only ever been on my machine when the wife wants to go for a ride. Takes two minutes or less to put it on or off. Takes the wife longer to wipe the dust off it! It goes where I point it and always starts. I broke 29.1 miles of trail with mine yesterday and we got over 40" of snow so far in the month of February. Only problem was the amount of snow coming over the windshield. I carry a 4500# winch rigged to pull from either front or rear. Mine was $8400.00 new.
Yamaha makes a model called a Bravo that is comparable to a Tundra and some trappers use, but I have never owned one.
Artic Cat makes a model comparable to the Skandic and calls it a Snow Cat or something like that, but again I've never owned one, I just know of trappers who have and spoke well of them.
There are also some trappers running the Indy series made by Polaris.
I've been a pretty loyal Ski Doo owner most of my life, so can't be of much help with the other brands. If you want to do some snomo research try the Trapperman.com site and look under the wilderness forum. Good bunch of guys from all over the country, who ride them all day.
Look at the Ski Doo Tundra or Skandic for utility type sleds. I'm not crazy about the new Rev frame on the Tundras the last 5 or 6 years, but they go where you point them. The older tundras are tanks from 1990 - 2010. They bring a premium used because they just don't die. I have a 1991 short track and a 2009 long track that have both been under water and have just replaced plugs, belts, throttle cable, and a fuel pump. Wore the track out on the 1991 and cost me 240.00 for a new one, of better design and deeper lugs. Was at a trappers convention a couple winters ago and there were 5 Tundras, in trucks, in the parkinglot. You have to ride them in deep powder, the 15" wide tracks are kinda narrow after you've owned a wide track. Wrap around bumpers and belly pans come stock. Elecric start is an option but I've only ever seen one so equipped.
I'm riding a 2010 Skandic wt (20x 156 x 1,5") and as happy as a pig in mud. It has reverse (rear of track oscilates when in reverse, so climbs instead of pushes snow) electric start, tool box under the seat, and the 550F engine (two stroke with oil injection), 8" wide polymer front skis, stantion front struts (really handy in brush and cattails). Has high and low range and reverse (life saver in the bush) They also make a 24" model that goes by Super wide track, but has too much push for me in the bogs when the snow gets deep. You have to slow down to turn in powder, but if you want to move a fish house or skid logs, that's the one to get. They offer bigger engines in both models, with a 4 stroke 600 Ace, with no pull start, and a 900 cc that is too heavy for my uses. If I was buying a new machine today I would get a Expedition model, which is a Skandik WT with independent front suspension, just for a better ride out in the open and better handling on hard pack. The older I get the more I appreciate the bigger machine and it's ride. The Skandic also comes with a two up seat with back rest but it's only ever been on my machine when the wife wants to go for a ride. Takes two minutes or less to put it on or off. Takes the wife longer to wipe the dust off it! It goes where I point it and always starts. I broke 29.1 miles of trail with mine yesterday and we got over 40" of snow so far in the month of February. Only problem was the amount of snow coming over the windshield. I carry a 4500# winch rigged to pull from either front or rear. Mine was $8400.00 new.
Yamaha makes a model called a Bravo that is comparable to a Tundra and some trappers use, but I have never owned one.
Artic Cat makes a model comparable to the Skandic and calls it a Snow Cat or something like that, but again I've never owned one, I just know of trappers who have and spoke well of them.
There are also some trappers running the Indy series made by Polaris.
I've been a pretty loyal Ski Doo owner most of my life, so can't be of much help with the other brands. If you want to do some snomo research try the Trapperman.com site and look under the wilderness forum. Good bunch of guys from all over the country, who ride them all day.
462
California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
All so true, Ian.
There is no doubt that the manipulation of electrons has benefited us in more ways than we can ever be able express, but the artificial intelligence field scares me.
While I understand Keith's very personal point, I know there are others besides myself whose souls were born 100 years, or more, before their bodies, and have a difficult time accepting most aspects of modern American society.
There is no doubt that the manipulation of electrons has benefited us in more ways than we can ever be able express, but the artificial intelligence field scares me.
While I understand Keith's very personal point, I know there are others besides myself whose souls were born 100 years, or more, before their bodies, and have a difficult time accepting most aspects of modern American society.
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
The first day of the "pre-apprenticeship" tool and die makers course, we hand forged a chunk of mild steel. The second day our German instructors (white shirts, black string ties and roll your own cigarettes handing out of their mouths) told us that our project for the three months was to hand file those lumps into exactly one inch cubes with exactly right angles and flat side. The first two guys who turned theirs in had them heated up, smashed with a hammer and told to try again.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
My Father was friends with the old German cabinet maker across and down the road from us. He told a brother or friend who went to machinist school in "the old country". Said the first real assignment was to take a hunk of steel and make it into a round ball of a given diameter. Once that was done, the ball was filed into a cube of a given dimension. Sounds like it was a fairly common idea.
Drafting. In the mid 70's when I was being pushed to conform to seeking a career requiring college, drafting was all the rage. Every male child was encouraged to go into drafting it seemed. We had 2 large mines nearby and some factories to the south that needed draftsmen I suppose. But of all the guys I knew that went to school for drafting, not one stayed in the field that I can recall. I wonder what ever happened to all those guys?
Ian, good post.
Drafting. In the mid 70's when I was being pushed to conform to seeking a career requiring college, drafting was all the rage. Every male child was encouraged to go into drafting it seemed. We had 2 large mines nearby and some factories to the south that needed draftsmen I suppose. But of all the guys I knew that went to school for drafting, not one stayed in the field that I can recall. I wonder what ever happened to all those guys?
Ian, good post.
RBHarter
West Central AR
Tools for looking inside of stuff !
About 5 yrs ago I bought a very old medical bore scope kit in a beautiful wood case , research said 1898-1920 for the tools with the maker going away in 193? . It worked for my needs to look into chambers and leades and down barrels but wasn't clear and was hard to see without a lot of light . The box was worth what I gave for the set .
2 years ago I bought one of those cheap chinpoo endoscopes for $20 in a 5mm dia that plugs into your phone ..........
Some difference ! Easy to use , clear , and I can show someone else what I saw .
About 5 yrs ago I bought a very old medical bore scope kit in a beautiful wood case , research said 1898-1920 for the tools with the maker going away in 193? . It worked for my needs to look into chambers and leades and down barrels but wasn't clear and was hard to see without a lot of light . The box was worth what I gave for the set .
2 years ago I bought one of those cheap chinpoo endoscopes for $20 in a 5mm dia that plugs into your phone ..........
Some difference ! Easy to use , clear , and I can show someone else what I saw .
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
I agree that GPS is cool, but accuracy is more like 5 or 10 meters at best. Way plenty good enough
for most uses.
Ian's post makes me think again about all the youngsters out there that cannot repair anything at all and
cannot using anything that doesn't have a USB port. As the old generation dies off, I think a lot of skills
are being lost, mostly the ability to fix stuff.
Bill
for most uses.
Ian's post makes me think again about all the youngsters out there that cannot repair anything at all and
cannot using anything that doesn't have a USB port. As the old generation dies off, I think a lot of skills
are being lost, mostly the ability to fix stuff.
Bill
462
California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
Bill,
I've witnessed it first hand, and very recently.
My soon-to-be 21 year old grandson is a junior at a Pennsylvania college, with partial tuition earned via an academic scholarship. A couple months ago, his van had a flat tire and he and his buddy hadn't any idea how to change it out with the spare. The kid is very smart, but never experienced any real world mechanical problems.
My grand-nephew, who is nine days older than my grandson, is learning carpentry, plumbing and electrical skills but didn't know how to use any of the required tools -- not even a wrench.
Electronic socializing and games have made millions of young kids completely inept in the most basic of life skills.
Bret,
In high school, I took four years of drafting/mechanical drawing classes, because I found it interesting and challenging. After graduating, I was going to take the same courses at the local junior college, but Viet Nam became a more important calling.
I've witnessed it first hand, and very recently.
My soon-to-be 21 year old grandson is a junior at a Pennsylvania college, with partial tuition earned via an academic scholarship. A couple months ago, his van had a flat tire and he and his buddy hadn't any idea how to change it out with the spare. The kid is very smart, but never experienced any real world mechanical problems.
My grand-nephew, who is nine days older than my grandson, is learning carpentry, plumbing and electrical skills but didn't know how to use any of the required tools -- not even a wrench.
Electronic socializing and games have made millions of young kids completely inept in the most basic of life skills.
Bret,
In high school, I took four years of drafting/mechanical drawing classes, because I found it interesting and challenging. After graduating, I was going to take the same courses at the local junior college, but Viet Nam became a more important calling.
Last edited:
Yes, very good post, Ian.
Yep, right about the same time I got into drafting. I never thought of drafting as a full-time career, but it has definitely been one of those little things that helped me along the way. Believe it or not, it secured me a primo position in my first permanent duty assignment in an Infantry Battalion. Other such things were knowing how to read, shoot, use a compass and to navigate (before entering the Infantry), being able to read a mic' and vernier caliper, knowing the difference between a screw and a bolt, etc. "Back in the day," those were basic skills boys learned, or at least I thought. Today, teaching someone to read a vernier scale,...... well, ever heard the one about pitchin' to someone who can't catch?
Drafting was a good skill to acquire - it embedded a lot of good OCD habits that carried over into other things.
The "GRID." I don't know about the rest of the world, but it seems the part of it I'm on is NOT better than it was way back when. Since the mandate to beef up the grid after the 2008 blackout, it's gotten worse. Every time the wind blows, we hold off on things like laundry or sticking something in the oven. That just came up again. I started this post an hour and a half ago and lost power. I don't bother to start the generator until it's been off at least an hour or until the basement sump crests.
I think there are still plenty of young people interested in learning to make and fix stuff. What we lack is a will to admit not every kid needs, or wants, to go to college. Our schools do not prepare kids for a career.
We need tech schools. We need to teach kids a skill set and prepare them for a career.
We need tech schools. We need to teach kids a skill set and prepare them for a career.
fiver
Well-Known Member
we have a tech school somewhere here in Idaho.
the bad thing about admissions is it's easier [and funded] for a kid that's been in trouble, struggles in school, and has spent a little time in the court system to get in, than it is for one that wants to go there that didn't have those problems.
the bad thing about admissions is it's easier [and funded] for a kid that's been in trouble, struggles in school, and has spent a little time in the court system to get in, than it is for one that wants to go there that didn't have those problems.
By tech school I mean high school. Let the, start learning auto mechanics, plumbing, construction, whatever. Cater the rest of the education around that field. Construction can entail trig, math for calculating expense and materials needed. It also can entail writing skills for formal proposals.
We can teach them a skill that allows them to enter the workforce right out of high school.
We can teach them a skill that allows them to enter the workforce right out of high school.
I won't even go into what has been going on with education and the idea, on all levels - from parents to politicians, that everyone needs an academic background.
That's as much as I can say without this being a "political post" because that's literally what it's all about.
OK, sorry. I'm done. I've deleted several paragraphs already.