What would you tell them ? ?
- Thread starter Ben
- Start date
Mitty38
Well-Known Member
oK, LOST ME
What is this de-coppering prior to loading cast???
I have heard and practiced reasonable de-leading prior to shooting jacket or plate, but never heard of the other way around?? If jacket would copper a barrel, then why don't Copper gas checks ruin a barrel, for shooting cast? Destroying the gun- accuracy?Stuck on the end of a lead bullet??
AT WHAT POINT WOULD De -Coppering NEED DONE?? THERE A THREAD DISCUSSING THE PROS-CONS AND METHODS OF DE-COppERING A BARREL?? Would not a nice copper flashing inside the barrel just make it more accurate??
My 30-06 had less then 40 rounds of jacket shot thru it, in its life time, then was cleaned well, before it ever saw a lead projectile. It is accurate with lead, so I think I am ok , but info might come in handy on a future purchase for jacket to lead switch.
What is this de-coppering prior to loading cast???
I have heard and practiced reasonable de-leading prior to shooting jacket or plate, but never heard of the other way around?? If jacket would copper a barrel, then why don't Copper gas checks ruin a barrel, for shooting cast? Destroying the gun- accuracy?Stuck on the end of a lead bullet??
AT WHAT POINT WOULD De -Coppering NEED DONE?? THERE A THREAD DISCUSSING THE PROS-CONS AND METHODS OF DE-COppERING A BARREL?? Would not a nice copper flashing inside the barrel just make it more accurate??
My 30-06 had less then 40 rounds of jacket shot thru it, in its life time, then was cleaned well, before it ever saw a lead projectile. It is accurate with lead, so I think I am ok , but info might come in handy on a future purchase for jacket to lead switch.
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Ian
Notorious member
Lead sticks to copper fouling, that's why. I don't think there are many threads on it here because we tend to take it as a given that copper fouled barrels aren't the best for cast bullets. There are some exceptions as always but generally this is true.
Ammonia-based copper removing solvents are generally recommended for getting the copper out. Heed the directions and be patient. Some of us use a reverse electroplating technique to remove severe copper jacket fouling.
Ammonia-based copper removing solvents are generally recommended for getting the copper out. Heed the directions and be patient. Some of us use a reverse electroplating technique to remove severe copper jacket fouling.
Mitty38
Well-Known Member
So I am taking it the kind of copper fouling that would cause an issue, would be on a gun that was shot a lot.
Shot mostly jacketed, flashed or plated. As the say, seasoned to shoot copper well.
Then had not been cleaned much, with a proper solvent like Hoppes 9. Probably showing green when a solvent dampened rag was pulled thru it.
Shot mostly jacketed, flashed or plated. As the say, seasoned to shoot copper well.
Then had not been cleaned much, with a proper solvent like Hoppes 9. Probably showing green when a solvent dampened rag was pulled thru it.
F
freebullet
Guest
Man, that's dirty....lets shoot it some mo'.
Mitty38
Well-Known Member
Clean all my guns after every range trip, in the dishwasher, Cascade works wonders!
All kidding aside I very much appreciate the way you guys have helped me.
Directing me to the basics. Teaching me proper alloy, sizing, and casting doctrine.While giving me just enough help and info to keep my interest going in the 06 loads, ( and a few bullet samples with some pet loads) allowing me to slowly learn. Then progress to making my own informed decisions.
All kidding aside I very much appreciate the way you guys have helped me.
Directing me to the basics. Teaching me proper alloy, sizing, and casting doctrine.While giving me just enough help and info to keep my interest going in the 06 loads, ( and a few bullet samples with some pet loads) allowing me to slowly learn. Then progress to making my own informed decisions.
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I find that shooting cast in a copper fouled barrel is a very good way to remove the copper. Higher Sb alloys are even better at it.
Mitty, if you have shot cast in the copper fouled barrel give it a good brushing then clean with bore solvent. Bet a fair bit of the copper is already gone.
Most of us don’t mention it because most of us don’t shoot many jacketed bullets.
Mitty, if you have shot cast in the copper fouled barrel give it a good brushing then clean with bore solvent. Bet a fair bit of the copper is already gone.
Most of us don’t mention it because most of us don’t shoot many jacketed bullets.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Mitty, it may not be an issue at all. In most cases, at least in my experience, the guy that wants to shoot lead is probably going to drag out his Dads 30-30 or the '03 Uncle Phil left him. Actually, it doesn't matter what it is, rifle or handgun. If it's had a mess of factory through it there's a pretty good chance it's going to have it's own brand of jacket fouling. Jacket fouling is more accurate than the copper fouled term I used. My Winchester 94 and Springfield '03 both have heavy jacket fouling that Hoppes doesn't even touch. Both shoot cast like crap. That's the kind of fouling I'm talking about. You've read about "fit". You know how important fit is. Picture the cat bullet heading down a barrel with humps and valleys the length of the barrel (yes, especially the first 6") and tell me how the sealing qualities are going to be. Or a revolver where the forcing cone has a ragged (relatively) band of jacket material embedded in it. That's the stuff I'm talking about.
The others are correct, we don't mention it because we forget some folks haven't been down that trail. Some guns don't copper foul, most do to one extent or another. Lets put it this way, when you get shooting cast and NOTHING gives you groups, try cleaning the bore with a copper solvent. If it's a surplus gun, plan on it.
GC's don't generally give copper fouling issues because ( my theory) they follow the lubed bullet. Used to be they wiped jacketed down with a Mobil product to keep the fouling down in military matches. Lube, that's why. And it's very thin and deforms easily, unlike a jacketed bullet.
The others are correct, we don't mention it because we forget some folks haven't been down that trail. Some guns don't copper foul, most do to one extent or another. Lets put it this way, when you get shooting cast and NOTHING gives you groups, try cleaning the bore with a copper solvent. If it's a surplus gun, plan on it.
GC's don't generally give copper fouling issues because ( my theory) they follow the lubed bullet. Used to be they wiped jacketed down with a Mobil product to keep the fouling down in military matches. Lube, that's why. And it's very thin and deforms easily, unlike a jacketed bullet.
L Ross
Well-Known Member
I thought my Springfield mil-surps had the worse copper fouling until I got a 1906 Winchester 1886 in .33 Winchester. 16 double sided patches with Montana Extreme and they were still blue as could be. Yes I was using a plastic bristle brush so the ME wasn't eating a bronze brush and showing false blue. I wonder if the old Winchester factory jacketed .33's were particularly soft jackets or if it was a rough factory bore. Anyway, once I was down to just a trace of blue green on a white patch I shot my cast and for barrel mounted irons it shot about the same with the Accurate 200 grain bullet as it did with jacketed, about a 2" group at 50 yards. More than adequate for woods deer.
fiver
Well-Known Member
they used to pull some pretty fancy tricks back in the day with different bullets.
you could get all copper jackets [not copper alloy] with exposed lead tips and they would generally be a bit undersized.
wham,, swell up and off they go.
bullets that had a steel cap and exposed lead base,,, once again wham,, and off they go.
[remington's version had two notches in the jacket wall for the lead to squeeze into, to lock the two together]
cupro-nickel, mild steel jackets with hollow points, paper patched from the factory, half jackets, folded tube bases, the English even had a partition bullet available at the turn of the century, and there were solid copper bullets available back then too.
tipped bullets ain't anything new either, they just didn't use plastic.
[you think a bronze or aluminum point is going to melt going through the air?]
the shooting world would probably [strike the probably I know it would] be quite a different place today if WW-2 hadn't of happened.
you could get all copper jackets [not copper alloy] with exposed lead tips and they would generally be a bit undersized.
wham,, swell up and off they go.
bullets that had a steel cap and exposed lead base,,, once again wham,, and off they go.
[remington's version had two notches in the jacket wall for the lead to squeeze into, to lock the two together]
cupro-nickel, mild steel jackets with hollow points, paper patched from the factory, half jackets, folded tube bases, the English even had a partition bullet available at the turn of the century, and there were solid copper bullets available back then too.
tipped bullets ain't anything new either, they just didn't use plastic.
[you think a bronze or aluminum point is going to melt going through the air?]
the shooting world would probably [strike the probably I know it would] be quite a different place today if WW-2 hadn't of happened.
gman
Well-Known Member
While the subject of copper fouling is still warm I recently started using the Bore Tech non ammonia based copper cleaner and carbon cleaner. I can say first hand that this stuff works and they have jags and cleaning rods that do not have any copper or bronze so the solution will not show false blue.
waco
Springfield, Oregon
This is what I use as well. For really stubborn copper or carbon JB bore compound is really good too. I just don't make a habit out of using it.
They are wanting to buy a mould and asking you which one ?
I guess we can assume they will be casting..........
Ben
fiver
Well-Known Member
my first question would be what I was alluding to in my first post.
what are their objectives?
target only... get the RCBS 30-165 silhouette, a 310 size die and play with the alloy some.[if they got that new off the shelf rifle]
if it's older and has some throat wear get a 311 size die and something like the Saeco #215, or the 311466
hunting... something 165-180 with a flat nose that has 60-65% meplat diameter.
the 215 would be a pretty good compromise for one mold for both applications and both rifles.
what are their objectives?
target only... get the RCBS 30-165 silhouette, a 310 size die and play with the alloy some.[if they got that new off the shelf rifle]
if it's older and has some throat wear get a 311 size die and something like the Saeco #215, or the 311466
hunting... something 165-180 with a flat nose that has 60-65% meplat diameter.
the 215 would be a pretty good compromise for one mold for both applications and both rifles.
Original post says it is for target work.