What's in YOUR Mix?

L Ross

Well-Known Member
Here's a perfect example. My friend Jon sold a Model 25 S&W in 45 Colt to another friend of mine. The buyer got around to pin gauging the throats. Oh horrors, .456" throats and a .451" groove diameter barrel. That will never do. Next he read on the interweb all about these terrible dimensions that Smith foisted on the innocent shooting public. Anxiety set in and said revolver was sold. Jon always said it was a fine shooter. Impossible with those conflicting dimensions. So now we are doing a Shoot 'n Share series of emails back and forth to encourage each other to shoot. The snow and weather has been awful so my friend Jon found some old targets in his loading room and shared them. The top two targets are from that Smith 25 will the horribly oversized throats. On the other hand, Jon can shoot.
 

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Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
I can sometimes overthink stuff but I am also not afraid to try the trial and error method.

What I really want is a single alloy for everything if possible. I hate having multiple anything. Well, except multiple guns.
 

M3845708Bama

Active Member
It's been too quiet for too long & we need a controversy. Results are what they are, but STILL gonna upset somebody I'm sure.

I make my lead in massive batches for uniformity. As a result, my 14 BHN mix has been with me for 25 years. My problems with the high pressure, 44 Special shooting parachute base bullets in that gun with .433 throats & .429 bore caused me to investigate. I have bullets molded from .435, .434, down to .429 & sizers to give me anything I need. If I size 44 caliber OR larger with this mix, just .002 in a PB configuration, I start to get base deformation in that the bullet attempts to go to a hollow base design. So when I shoot this, .004 sizing by the bore at this massive pressure (5.5 gr, 231) is blowing off chunks of the base. That ain't good cause the base is the steering wheel of the bullet.

Ah, can't be, Uncle Elmer said bullets swell so he called it obturation. Bases don't blow out, that would be deformation. This lead to the famous line no GCs on revolver bullets. (rifles & autos require them) In this case, Elmer was wrong. I shot those 14 BHN bullets in Special cases sized .429 in .431 throats in a magnum cylinder. (I don't normally do this) That 240 gr bullet had 50% of the bullet length up in the throats, so nothing of the bullet could touch once the case expanded to let go of the bullet. The load, still 5.5 gr of 231 is about 11k psi max. Both the bullet and throat were lubed with LBT Blue & coated with Uncle Ben' Super Duper lube to minimize resistance, pressure, and expedite bullet travel. (I gave it EVERY chance) With one fired round in each chamber, I have a uniform, 360 degree lead ring around each chamber up to the ramps. That lead had to come off the parachute base blowing out. Most people would tell you that isn't even enough pressure to obturate 14 BHN little alone deform the crap out of it. Huh, surprised me.

So I have some slugs that were diluted with the "hard" mix at about 10 BHN. Should dilute the copper & what ever else AND …. it still won't size 44s for crap. If it won't size right in the controlled climate of a nose first sizer, no use wasting powder on it. (GCs appear to be no problem as the surface simply goes into the GC groove and the base remains square for an ideal launch. But 20-1 will size down .004 with only minimal to the eye, base deformation. With my "rifle" mix, no matter the hardness, the toughness of the slug forces the external portion of the bullet to react to ALL the sizing. In a nut shell, it's a crappy mix for plain base bullets above a certain caliber anyway. Works GREAT up to 35.

20-1 probably sizes uniformly through out the diameter which is why bases remain fairly (to my eye) undisturbed. I don't have any straight WW to try it, but it's no matter, I have been blessed with half a ton of pure & I still have @ 80 lbs of tin I bought from the other board a decade ago. (cheap) So I will be going the old school route of 16 -1 or maybe 11-1 if need be with that for parachute base designs in my 44 Special. What a PIA for one gun.

These 44 results are a little better. (see pic) This is 20-1 with the 5.5 gr of 231, standing supported @ 33 yds from the porch shooting at the center of the pie plate. (not the most precision) (too lazy to set up for 6 shots cause it's snowing) I'm happy.View attachment 8319
It should be. Worth while adding a little more copper and using powder coating. The copper will make it stronger with a finer grain structure and a good PC will usually stop the leading. Worth a try!
 

358156 hp

At large, whereabouts unknown.
This thread really put into words a number of issues I've experienced over the years. I have struggled with getting decent performance from softer alloy plain-based bullets and alloys off and on, and now I have a good idea why, and what to do about these issues when, not if, they arise again. The truth is, I was really happy with my hard cast bullet results, and I like gas checks (except for the price). Powder coating had salvaged my softer alloy results, especially with my unfortunate hollowpoint and hollowbase addiction. I seem to like doing things the hard(er) way, and I don't see myself giving up on that anytime soon. Ians post about 296/H110 reminded me that I had always gotten better results with 2400, and since I'm low on H110 I will revisit 2400. I have had really good results with AA#9/WC820, and still use a lot of it. The part about timing the loads pressure curve explained a lot of things I had heard in the past, but didn't fully grasp.

And it really doesn't matter, until it does:). Thanks for a great read guys!
 
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Rally

NC Minnesota
Ian,
We had that discussion on here about a year ago (IIRC)and the bullet I was considering had a gas check base, so possibly some room at the base, but not much help I'm guessing in the long run. My Marlin loves that shape, and a DP version the best. I'm not considering PC any time soon anyway, way too many irons in the fire now. I have @ 60 lbs of them cast, sized, checked and lubed so no big hurry.
 

dale2242

Well-Known Member
All of my handgun bullets are plain base and cast from my generic Lyman #2 alloy.
My # 2 is 9# of COWW + 1 # of solder.
My GC rifle bullets are cast from 50/50 COWW/ linotype except for the 22cal that are pure lino.
I am not casting any plain base rifle bullets.
The only lube I have ever used is NRA 50/50.
 
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358156 hp

At large, whereabouts unknown.
I use range scrap, and "enrich" it using pewter, and lino. Since I don't have a way to melt down my scrap in huge lots, I experience variations, and often have to track down symptoms, and make adjustments. Wheelweights are pretty tough to come across around here, I have connections in some of the larger tire shops, but they're mostly getting steel & zinc WWs coming off cars & trucks anymore. So range scrap it is!
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
I don't have a way to do huge lot's of alloy either but . . . I had collected 800 pounds of cleaned, sorted clip-on weights and poured them into 5 pound well fluxed ingots. My pot holds 80 pounds molten before it's too full to flux, I spent an afternoon alternating all of these ingots back into the pot and pouring back into ingots until all had been cycled through several times. I left about 20 pounds molten and added another 60 pounds of ingots, fluxed again and poured 60 pounds of ingots. Yep, was a PITA but it was a one time deal and once done I had 800 pounds of as identical WW alloy as was possible. Still have 400-500 pounds of those ingots. Did the same with the 500 pounds of tape weights that are now blended for a uniform alloy of about 6 BHN. I left them as blended, added nothing and only alloy at the casting pot such as 2% Sn. With a supply of pure bar Sn and Roto Metals Super Hard and the two base alloys (CWW-SWW) I can alloy pretty much anything I need that may come up in the future. I get very little variation in my alloys now so that miserable afternoon of re-melting all those ingots over and over again was time well spent.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
I did the same as Rick but used 2 pots and a third larger pot that they got 'emptied' into.
long hot day, but I got it all mixed up, and it's for sure clean.
 

S Mac

Sept. 10, 2021 Steve left us. You are missed.
I did the same as Rick but used 2 pots and a third larger pot that they got 'emptied' into.
long hot day, but I got it all mixed up, and it's for sure clean.
Fiver posted that suggestion some time back, I too followed that suggestion, a long day, but uniform alloy.
 

Rally

NC Minnesota
I still have my alloys in ingots as per what they are. I have coww, soww, mono, Lino, and tin/pewter all In ingot form. I just prefer not commit to a single alloy. My rifle alloy is much harder than my pistol and I tend to make a bunch of them when I find something that works for me. Like 358156 mentioned, i’ve Not been lucky with soft alloys in rifles, and am loading more wide meplats and dimple points than anything else.