Which Battery for the Cummins?

[smokeywolf]

Time to buy new batteries for the Dodge Ram diesel. No sub-freezing weather in the Los Angeles/San Fernando Valley suburbs, so battery selection was less critical.
I know hot weather is as hard or harder on batteries as cold, but wondering if I should be switching to something more robust like an AGM. My truck takes 2 batteries so, it's not a cheap date. Are the Optima batteries worth the extra expense? I know that many of the fire trucks have 7 or more Optima batteries on board.

Any advice for a recent convert to 4 season living?

 

[Ian]

Optima and most other AGM batteries are more trouble than they're worth and unless your vehicle's charging system is designed for them (it is NOT), then forget it. AGM is for shock absorption and closed compartment use, they are no more weather-resistant than any other unless you're talking sub-arctic.

All batteries fail. All batteries wear out. All brands have warranty failures. I put East Penn-made NAPA Gold batteries in all my vehicles since 2014 (we were and Interstate dealer at my last shop and for 11 years I saw most of them fail within 33 months) and have replaced two of them within this last year, pretty much lasting to the end of their pro-rate period.

Dual battery setups reduce battery life because they fight each other for the delta voltage when the key is off. The first one to weaken takes the other with it. Dodge and Ram trucks are hell on batteries because of vibration and heat. Older Ram trucks (2007 and back) use a group 65 battery which leaks acid around the posts on every brand of battery made, corroding the terminals to buggery in short order.

Bottom line is buy the premium version of whatever is easily available to you (so it's easy to handle warranty issues) and have them individually load tested by a reputable shop prior to their free replacement period expiring. Better yet, buy your own load tester and check them every three months. This is what I do and it allows me to see when the battery that is working fine under normal conditions is just about to crash.

 

[Ian]

One more thing. Most new batteries have surface oxide in the posts and few installers clean it off. Fewer clean the cable ends properly and fewer still torque and seal them. If you want it done right you have to do it yourself or stand behind them threatening with your Size 11s.

 

[RicinYakima]

Smokeywolf, I live in the four season area and have a 2006 Dodge Hemi. The mechanic I use only does NAPA parts and every four years I throw the battery away and put a new one in. Cheap insurance when you are towing a thousand miles from home. Ric

 

[Rick]

Yep, Ian nailed it, Two places in town for NAPA batteries. The NAPA store on 62E of course and the NAPA garage on 5N. If you want to load test your own a load tester isn't very expensive, about $20-30.

 

[Rick]

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[smokeywolf]

Thank you gents.
In SoCal, you're much less likely to be in a life threatening situation because of a battery failure. One of the reasons, while prepping for a move I invested in two sets of 25' long, 1 AWG, stranded copper jumper cables rated at 800 amp. They were pricey and weigh a ton, but if I ever can't jump a car, truck or anything else, it won't be because of crappy cables.

 

[smokeywolf]

Yep, Ian nailed it, Two places in town for NAPA batteries. The NAPA store on 62E of course and the NAPA garage on 5N. If you want to load test your own a load tester isn't very expensive, about $20-30.

Thanks Rick, I'll likely be stopping at the 62E location next time we're in town.

 

[Bret4207]

I'll echo Ians sentiments. AGM in the firetrucks? Yeah, believe it or not that's a status symbol among the EMS/LE crowd and a selling point when someone is specing out a new $350K fire truck or Wambulance or Super Duper Po-leece vee-hikle. Big boys toys. IMO, you'd be far better off investing in new battery cables and commerical battery cable connectors, and making sure your charging system in 100% than throwing money at Elite Status Batteries. And if you can add some vibration dampening pads under the batts that will help too. See that a lot on farm stuff, it really does help.

 

[Ian]

Optima Red Tops are a godsend when a Jeep ends up on its lid after going ass over teakettle backwards down steep a granite crevice. A normal flooded battery will lose its caps sometimes in such situations and drench occupants in sulfuric acid solution, which is mighty unpleasant as you can imagine. However, the same battery becomes a curse to the Jeeper doing a long rescue winch pull because the battery can't vent or dissipate heat very well under heavy draw loads and cooks down internally. It cooks down even more during the resting periods as the 135-amp alternator goes full-field in an attempt to restore the charge state.

AGM batteries have to be used and charged under very controlled voltage and amperage conditions or the heat kills them. Unless highly modified for AGM requirements, the only vehicles that should be running them are those which had them installed at the factory, such as Jeep Grand Cherokees with the battery located under the passenger front seat.

 

[fiver]

wish I knew who made the battery in my Dodge, it's been in there since they put it in at the factory.
[knock on wood] but even after sitting at the airport in Wyoming for 15 days at a time for years, it's always started right up.
and here where I just keep a spare battery charged up in the garage all winter I've never needed to swap it out in the truck.

 

[smokeywolf]

First (original) battery in my '79 Camaro lasted over 7 years. That was one of only 2 vehicles I've bought new. Drove it off the showroom floor. Mom's Suburban was a 3 year old, 36,000 mile, lease return. Got its first set of new brake pads at about 200,000 miles. 4 or 5 sets of tires, 3 batteries, 2 fuel pumps, catalytic converter, and a knock sensor. The Camaro and the Suburban have been the best vehicles I've owned.

 

[Rick]

Vehicles driven mostly on freeways and interstates are extremely easy on breaks, rarely used for the number of miles driven. Vehicles mostly driven in town are constantly on & off the breaks. Winter is far more severe on lead acid batteries so vehicles used in areas with mild to no winters normally don't change batteries as often.

 

[blackthorn]

New battery in my 2004 Toyota Highlander last fall so, 16 years old. Still started ok but tested weak so it got changed. I don't like problems!

 

[Petrol & Powder]

I had a Dodge with the Cummins diesel for 17 years. It had the dual battery setup and I used regular lead-acid batteries. No AGM, no Optima, etc.

The key to those setups is to replace the batteries in pairs. Never replace a single battery alone.

I only had to replace those pairs twice over the life of the truck. I did use high quality commercial batteries that had high reserve capacity ratings but not high cranking amps (when you have two batteries you don't need a battery with high cranking amps). There are dozens of brands for automotive batteries but the reality is there are only a handful of companies that actually make them. Mine were made by Johnson Controls (IIRC) and had a genetic black case with the local distributor's name on them. I never had problems starting that engine but I did use a block heater when it was cold.

By the way, there was a design flaw in the starter solenoid on that truck. The contacts are undersized and will fail prematurely. There is a kit to upgrade that starter solenoid. https://www.genosgarage.com/product/lb-r90ss/engine-rebuild-kits-3

If you have a truck made in those years, I can HIGHLY recommend that kit. It takes about 30 minutes to install and you'll never have a problem with the solenoid again.

By the way, Geno's Garage is an excellent resource.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

While we're taking batteries, I'm just going to toss out a few points.

There are three basic ratings to look at when buying batteries: The warrantee period (which is a total joke), Cold Cranking Amps and Reserve Capacity.
Of those three, Reserve Capacity is the most useful rating.

There are only a handful of automotive battery manufacturers. They make batteries for everyone and they are sold under dozens of names. They are also made to different specs for different end products.
Warrantees mean almost nothing, so don't put a lot of faith in those numbers. Batteries are pro-rated and warrantees are designed to sell batteries, not to protect customers.

Cold Cranking Amps is a mildly useful number but it probably shouldn't be your only criteria when selecting a battery. It is the number of amps the battery can deliver for 30 seconds at 0 degrees Fahrenheit without dropping below 7.2 volts. There is a limit to how much current the starter can use (or draws) and sometimes there is even a limit on how much current actually reaches the starter (due to poor cable design). So you need a high enough CCA rating to spin the engine in the lowest possible temps and maybe a little extra for good measure - but after that it becomes superfluous. If you only need 500 amps to spin the engine in the absolute worst conditions, there's no benefit to buying a battery that can produce 1000 CCA.

Reserve Capacity [RC] is the most telling of the ratings. RC is the number of minutes the battery can produce 25 amps at 80 degrees without falling below 10.5 volts. (or 1.75 volts per cell). This is a much more useful rating for an automotive battery.

So when evaluating batteries, you want enough CCA for the coldest possible conditions and the highest Reserve Capacity. Sometimes you can give up some unneeded CCA to get a higher RC.

And I agree with Ian about the installation of batteries. If they can't do it right (or will not do it right). Do it yourself !
The battery posts and the cable ends need to be cleaned before they are installed. After everything is clean and tight, I like to use the spray-on type of terminal sealant. Some people prefer to use grease to seal the terminals but I don't think that holds up as well.

When I install a new battery, I use a silver Sharpie and write the install date on top of the battery in big numbers. That removes all doubt about how long the battery has been in use.

 

[fiver]

one thing I learned about the 2 battery systems, is you want to rotate the batteries.
yeh,yeah, yeah, they are hooked up blah, blah, but the main battery does get more power pulled and harder charging going back and forth, and the further one gets the lesser amounts which is kind of worse.

rotating them every 9 months to a year helps settle them both in and evens out the wear.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

When they are wired in parallel, which one is the "main" battery?

 

[popper]

designed to sell batteries, no just to keep you buying that brand. Toyota OEM seem to last longest but you cannot get OEM from overseas, but Mexico is where most come from. Optima deep cycle won't start a car, just spill proof. 12v in parallel? RV use? Alternate them - parralel need special circuitry to work right. My understanding for diesel they are series? Batteries are for rent, not sale and last one I bought was 150$. Heat kills them, cold fractures the plates. Vibration sluffs off the junk into between the plates so they short out. Reason Optima is gel electrolyte. New cars with auto start function should sell LOTS of batteries - and starters.
Dang, just saw Musk is building a 100MW battery storage unit S.W. of Houston and state is giving $$. Just got one on-line in San Diego. Hope they have fire department near by. That old ammonia explosion is nothing compared.

 

[462]

Dang, just saw Musk is building a 100MW battery storage unit S.W. of Houston and state is giving $$.

Elon Musk is the master of raping the American taxpayer to his benefit.