I'd love to./beagle
Why are they still doing this
- Thread starter beagle
- Start date
todd
Well-Known Member
i still have them, but i think the 7-08 are loaded with a 139gr Hornady FN with IMR4320. alot of the cases are flaked. i never had on pistol or straight walled cases. i think it was mostly expansion/shrinkage of the case.
Only time I've seen it flake is at the mouth, after trimming on some second-hand 30/30 brass. Got me in a jam with a stuck case in a FLR die. Once was enough. I don't seek out nickle for handgun, but I outright reject it for rifle. Not that common anyway, so I'm not missing that much.
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
You are correct.
It is a common practice at qualifications for LE to shoot the issued duty ammo (often nickel-plated casings) at a set interval (typically once a year). Depending on the agency, they may qualify more than once a year but that doesn’t necessarily mean they will expend their duty ammo at every qualification. Most states set standards for LE qualifications and most of those standards require at least one annual qualification course to be shot with duty ammo.
The remainder of the qualification session is then conducted with practice ammo (brass casings). When the multiple qualification courses are over for the day, the officers are issued new duty ammo. This practice ensures that duty ammo is cycled through on a regular basis. It also results in far more empty brass casings than nickel plated casings, at the end of day. Some agencies collect and sell that empty brass, some abandon it.
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
A little off topic here.
I’m not a huge fan of nickel-plated casings but I do separate them from brass casings and use them. I use nickel casings to differentiate loadings that use the same bullet but have different powder charges. This allows for instant identification.
I haven’t experienced a lot flaking of nickel plating, although I have seen it. More often I see the plating wearing off from multiple reloading cycles. Case mouth splits seem to occur after fewer reloading cycles with nickel plated cases as compared to brass cases.
I’m not a huge fan of nickel-plated casings but I do separate them from brass casings and use them. I use nickel casings to differentiate loadings that use the same bullet but have different powder charges. This allows for instant identification.
I haven’t experienced a lot flaking of nickel plating, although I have seen it. More often I see the plating wearing off from multiple reloading cycles. Case mouth splits seem to occur after fewer reloading cycles with nickel plated cases as compared to brass cases.
358156 hp
At large, whereabouts unknown.
Many of the Cops I know shoot off their duty ammo at qualification and replace it with fresh duty ammo at qualification time. Some shoot off their duty ammo every 30 days or so to make sure they always have fresh, clean ammo in their magazines. If it were me, I'd put my heart into the effort and shoot it off every month.
KeithB
Resident Half Fast Machinist
On somebody else's dime? Hell yes!
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
Typically not an option.
Most agencies do not allow officers to just burn through duty ammo as they wish.
Agencies budget for those expenses, including the amount of duty ammo the agency purchases per year.
KeithB
Resident Half Fast Machinist
Yeah, I know that. But in general, if somebody is going to pay for ANY amount of ammo I'm going to use it. And I bet certain categories of police - SWAT maybe - get extra practice time and ammo.
Dusty Bannister
Well-Known Member
I dabble in range brass from an LEO range which is shared by several agencies. During the last couple of years, it has been a matter of what the agency can buy to provide for the officers qualifications and proficiency. The majority of the 308 Winchester caliber, not specifically the maker is nearly always plain brass cases. The majority of the 223/5.56 is plain brass with a smaller amount of plated cases. One point here is, I see a bunch of mangled brass cases that failed to chamber and end up ejected and laying on the ground. I do not ever recall finding one plated case that had not been fired.
I mention this not to prove a point, but to offer a reason some might prefer that their officers not have feeding or cycling issues. Perhaps that is why those agencies could care less if the cases are reloadable or not.
During the case inspection and sorting I have found some respected makers seem to have let their QC slip a little bit. That is kind of sad.
I mention this not to prove a point, but to offer a reason some might prefer that their officers not have feeding or cycling issues. Perhaps that is why those agencies could care less if the cases are reloadable or not.
During the case inspection and sorting I have found some respected makers seem to have let their QC slip a little bit. That is kind of sad.
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
Yes, and that practice ammo largely consists of FMJ, brass cased cartridges with a bullet weight similar to the duty round.
Duty ammo is expensive.
fiver
Well-Known Member
round here they spend their money on new SUV's and Trucks for the city cops and sheriffs to drive.
ammo,,, sure...
our old police chief was kind of a buddy of mine and when he found out i could put down ammo at a good rate for a good price he was constantly trying to get me to work out a contract to supply them with practice ammo just so his guys could actually practice.
he even showed me a room in their offices where i could setup my stuff ''and be on staff' as he put it.
ammo,,, sure...
our old police chief was kind of a buddy of mine and when he found out i could put down ammo at a good rate for a good price he was constantly trying to get me to work out a contract to supply them with practice ammo just so his guys could actually practice.
he even showed me a room in their offices where i could setup my stuff ''and be on staff' as he put it.
quicksylver
Well-Known Member
during the begining of the LAST shortage a LGS thought they would help out (and make some extra jingle) by supplying a couple of the LLE 'S with reloads for training, as it turned out the recruits got trained but not the way it was supposed to happen , when it blew up one of the recruits guns , she got disability payments for quite some time.
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
This is a great gig if you can make good ammo. Going to run out 10,000 on your Dillion? Not so good.
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
There’s no solid universal rule but LE budgets are very complex animals. While some very public and visible aspects, like vehicles, often get the attention, the big-ticket items are usually things less visible.
Pay and insurance are almost always the lion’s share of any organization’s budget. Overtime is also very unpredictable and tough to budget for.
State governments typically purchase large blocks of vehicles and then make those vehicles available to individual agencies at a lower per-unit cost than if purchased individually. However, the purchase price is only part of that expense. There’s equipment, markings, fuel, maintenance, repairs, insurance, etc. Vehicle costs can be amortized over the life of the vehicle, but you always lose some vehicles early in their expected life. And you have to budget for that too. It doesn’t matter if an employee wrecks that car due to poor driving, a fleeing criminal runs into it, or a big tree falls on it during a storm. You still must replace it.
Training budgets are huge and training ammo is only one small part of training budgets.
Buildings, utilities, building maintenance, supplies, computers, even paper comes out of those budgets. And the lists go on.
We all complain about government spending and perhaps that is healthy to some degree. But we owe it to ourselves as citizens to educate ourselves to some degree about how our money is spent. That new police car rolling down the street will likely serve the public better than the 6-figure salary of some third redundant deputy-assistant-director of some bloated bureaucratic agency, along with his secretary, two professional assistants, take home luxury car, newly redecorated office, expense account, insurance, retirement and travel budget.
People see things like police cars, fire trucks, school buses, public works dump trucks, buildings and equipment and tend to equate those items to big spending. What they often don’t see are salaries, insurance, benefits, and other not so tangible expenses that almost always cost more than some car, truck, gun, radio or lawn mower.
Pay and insurance are almost always the lion’s share of any organization’s budget. Overtime is also very unpredictable and tough to budget for.
State governments typically purchase large blocks of vehicles and then make those vehicles available to individual agencies at a lower per-unit cost than if purchased individually. However, the purchase price is only part of that expense. There’s equipment, markings, fuel, maintenance, repairs, insurance, etc. Vehicle costs can be amortized over the life of the vehicle, but you always lose some vehicles early in their expected life. And you have to budget for that too. It doesn’t matter if an employee wrecks that car due to poor driving, a fleeing criminal runs into it, or a big tree falls on it during a storm. You still must replace it.
Training budgets are huge and training ammo is only one small part of training budgets.
Buildings, utilities, building maintenance, supplies, computers, even paper comes out of those budgets. And the lists go on.
We all complain about government spending and perhaps that is healthy to some degree. But we owe it to ourselves as citizens to educate ourselves to some degree about how our money is spent. That new police car rolling down the street will likely serve the public better than the 6-figure salary of some third redundant deputy-assistant-director of some bloated bureaucratic agency, along with his secretary, two professional assistants, take home luxury car, newly redecorated office, expense account, insurance, retirement and travel budget.
People see things like police cars, fire trucks, school buses, public works dump trucks, buildings and equipment and tend to equate those items to big spending. What they often don’t see are salaries, insurance, benefits, and other not so tangible expenses that almost always cost more than some car, truck, gun, radio or lawn mower.
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358156 hp
At large, whereabouts unknown.
The rules on political posts here prevent me from speaking my mind here about even local politicians. I just left a local government job and post #36 made me chuckle. I suggest we swerve away from any further political discussion. If my post is over the line in this matter, please delete it, rather than locking the thread.
fiver
Well-Known Member
i've done a 10-K run on a 550 before, my left thumb still has a crease in it.
i don't have an issue with the city trying to keep good equipment on hand, heck i'd really like to see them get a couple of new dump truck/snow plows.
we are down to 2 ATM and one of them looks like a rebuilt construction rig they drug out of a field.
it doesn't actually throw cinders out behind it as it goes, they just sort of fall out the back and leak out the holes in the bottom of the bed.
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
Elpatoloco
Active Member
Its kind of like High Brass on Shotgun shells. It was originally used on the paper Hulls to keep from burn through with magnum powder charges. It serves ZERO purpose with plastic hulls.