2 degrees
- Thread starter KHornet
- Start date
Ian
Notorious member
23, it warmed up a degree, have two cats trying to pin me down in my chair, but it's time to go to the unheated shop and see how good the grease is in my lathe bearings!
We had a Mitsubishi ductless heat pump put in about a month ago, first year we haven't had to depend on wood heat....this is true luxury!
We had a Mitsubishi ductless heat pump put in about a month ago, first year we haven't had to depend on wood heat....this is true luxury!
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
When I traveled in the former Soviet states, I ran into these Japanese ductless AC units. They were
apparently invented for giant soviet apartment blocks, all concrete and no ductwork or utility races built in
for any sort of AC installation. After soviet times, there was enough money and demand for AC to put
them in place. High wall mounted unit inside, exterior "window AC" looking unit outside, but the two
pieces are separated, unlike a window unit. And at some point, they made them reversible, so that
they can be heat pumps, too. The soviet apts had good steam heat, so most were AC only. Seems like
the were invented for apartment buildings, maybe for Japan at first, then spread to where ever people
owned their own units in a high rise.
I am going to be building a large addition den on my house, and it will be very inconvenient to
replace central ducted AC with a larger unit and run long ductwork to the addition. One or two of these
units seems to be the easiest way to cool, and maybe heat. Also considering floor hot water heating
for the addition.
Looking online, I ran across the Home Depot Mr. Cool brand of units designed for DIY installation. They get
very high reviews, seems like a good deal. 24,000 BTU unit is under $1700. Not sure I will DIY it, but this style
seems a good fit for my addition or any place where you need to add an AC/heat pump to a space where it was
not designed to have ducts and a utility room to put the unit. I want to check into the cost of a Trane or one of
the Jap units installed by a local HVAC contractor.
And I see we have the new software installed. Looks different but nice. The wife tells me that Omaha broke a
record last night with 15 below. It is cold here in Fla, at relative's house, heating with wood, but only low 40s,
but rainy. I'll take it over the low of -8 last night in KC.
Bill
apparently invented for giant soviet apartment blocks, all concrete and no ductwork or utility races built in
for any sort of AC installation. After soviet times, there was enough money and demand for AC to put
them in place. High wall mounted unit inside, exterior "window AC" looking unit outside, but the two
pieces are separated, unlike a window unit. And at some point, they made them reversible, so that
they can be heat pumps, too. The soviet apts had good steam heat, so most were AC only. Seems like
the were invented for apartment buildings, maybe for Japan at first, then spread to where ever people
owned their own units in a high rise.
I am going to be building a large addition den on my house, and it will be very inconvenient to
replace central ducted AC with a larger unit and run long ductwork to the addition. One or two of these
units seems to be the easiest way to cool, and maybe heat. Also considering floor hot water heating
for the addition.
Looking online, I ran across the Home Depot Mr. Cool brand of units designed for DIY installation. They get
very high reviews, seems like a good deal. 24,000 BTU unit is under $1700. Not sure I will DIY it, but this style
seems a good fit for my addition or any place where you need to add an AC/heat pump to a space where it was
not designed to have ducts and a utility room to put the unit. I want to check into the cost of a Trane or one of
the Jap units installed by a local HVAC contractor.
And I see we have the new software installed. Looks different but nice. The wife tells me that Omaha broke a
record last night with 15 below. It is cold here in Fla, at relative's house, heating with wood, but only low 40s,
but rainy. I'll take it over the low of -8 last night in KC.
Bill
F
freebullet
Guest
Imo wood heat is luxurious.
358156
Maybe a heat tape?
358156
Maybe a heat tape?
Ian
Notorious member
I won't try to discourage anyone from going the homestore/diy route for ductless AC, but you need a GOOD vacuum pump (about $500 minimum for one that will pull to 300 microns) and a digital vacuum gauge. I didn't have any luck trying to find a local company willing to just come out and vacuum the system for me, they all want the the money for the install and markup on equipment too (I can't blame them at all for that). You also won't get any warranty unless a contractor installs it for you.
After batting this around for about five years and saving some money back, I finally found a company here who gave me the straight dope on what works, what doesn't, what's the best brand, warranty, etc. and we settled on a 4-ton condenser unit having provisions for up to five indoor units. These guys installed many similar units having about 5-tons of evaporator capacity and find they work just fine, even wide-open on all evaporators on a 100-degree day doing a max load test they only were able to get the whole system to pull 18.4 amps of 220. Amazingly efficient. So we put in two indoor units in the biggest spaces and can heat/cool 80% of the house with the condenser unit basically idling.
Cost-wise, I worked a trade deal on labor to do some diesel work on a service truck, and they sold me the equipment at cost. Still cost nearly five grand, but I have a full warranty on parts and install and have enough capacity for three more head units in the house, which we'll add as we have money. If you have the stuff to vacuum the pre-charged units, go for it, but be warned, there's a lot of junk out there and you can easily get hosed if you need support later.
After batting this around for about five years and saving some money back, I finally found a company here who gave me the straight dope on what works, what doesn't, what's the best brand, warranty, etc. and we settled on a 4-ton condenser unit having provisions for up to five indoor units. These guys installed many similar units having about 5-tons of evaporator capacity and find they work just fine, even wide-open on all evaporators on a 100-degree day doing a max load test they only were able to get the whole system to pull 18.4 amps of 220. Amazingly efficient. So we put in two indoor units in the biggest spaces and can heat/cool 80% of the house with the condenser unit basically idling.
Cost-wise, I worked a trade deal on labor to do some diesel work on a service truck, and they sold me the equipment at cost. Still cost nearly five grand, but I have a full warranty on parts and install and have enough capacity for three more head units in the house, which we'll add as we have money. If you have the stuff to vacuum the pre-charged units, go for it, but be warned, there's a lot of junk out there and you can easily get hosed if you need support later.
358156 hp
At large, whereabouts unknown.
It ran for perhaps a half hour in an unoccupied level of the house before the ice jam said "fine, be that way", and cleared. None of the CO detectors made a peep. Now I'm taking a break from doing dishes...
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
Apparently the DIY one from Home Depot has "precharged lines" and valves on the compressor, no vacuum pump
seems to be needed. Of course, support after sale will be only from an HVAC shop. Not pushing it, at all, just noticed
the option.
Unvented propane is pretty safe, like unvented NG. Carbons will all go to carbon dioxide in any good burner.
Normal leakage is usually plenty, but in a tight enough modern house, I suppose CO2 buildup could be an issue.
I have run small propane heaters for years to warm bathroom in our cabin in the mountains, no issues.
Charcoal is the one that kills most, very high CO output.
Bill
seems to be needed. Of course, support after sale will be only from an HVAC shop. Not pushing it, at all, just noticed
the option.
Unvented propane is pretty safe, like unvented NG. Carbons will all go to carbon dioxide in any good burner.
Normal leakage is usually plenty, but in a tight enough modern house, I suppose CO2 buildup could be an issue.
I have run small propane heaters for years to warm bathroom in our cabin in the mountains, no issues.
Charcoal is the one that kills most, very high CO output.
Bill
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F
freebullet
Guest
It may be the over cautious flood mitigator in me but, I'd go down & check around for water coming out under/above the wall.
When the pipes freeze they usually split parallel the pipe. 1/2 water line flows upward of 5gpm. Makes a big mess in a hurry.
Did a house some years back. The meter logged 525,000 gallons between the dates it was last checked & when found. Pretty much had to gut it.
Also, unhook garden hoses outside the house in freezing conditions. Water from the hose backs up & freezes in the line. If it splits the next time you use your hose your basement floods the whole time. See a few of those every year.
When the pipes freeze they usually split parallel the pipe. 1/2 water line flows upward of 5gpm. Makes a big mess in a hurry.
Did a house some years back. The meter logged 525,000 gallons between the dates it was last checked & when found. Pretty much had to gut it.
Also, unhook garden hoses outside the house in freezing conditions. Water from the hose backs up & freezes in the line. If it splits the next time you use your hose your basement floods the whole time. See a few of those every year.
Ian
Notorious member
Bill, that looks like a pretty good system for not a lot of money. Decent warranty, too. Since this it our primary system, we didn't want to take any chances with parts and support not being available in the future, so we got the "Cadillac" of the ductless brands. The 12-year warranty sealed the deal for us.
waco
Springfield, Oregon
I have the same one. Had it a few years now. My house had base board heaters. I love this thing. After all the rebates from our utility board I got mine installed for like $1500 out of pocket. Great heat in the winter and nice cool AC in the summer.
My only complaint is it does nothing to cool down the upstairs. I'd have to get another unit for that I think.
Ian
Notorious member
Walter, that's why we got the condenser that can accept up to five indoor units....room to add on. Right now we have an 18K btu unit in the living room (heart of the house), and a 15K btu unit in the master bedroom upstairs (more than half the total upstairs including the master bath), so we only have one bedroom upstairs, one downstairs, and the kitchen/dining area to add in later. With the way heat transfers through the house and the relatively open floor plan, the two units keep most of the house comfortable right now, and the 35-40% relative humidity levels on heat or cool is just outstanding, even with a 24K btu window unit the humidity would stay around 80% in the summer time. How does your system handle the humidity where you are? We replaced three window units, the wood stove, and about half a dozen space heaters with the Mitsubishi and just two indoor heads. We kept the parlor stove for emergency heat/cooking. Can your condenser handle another indoor unit, or will you have to add a separate system or upgrade the condenser to add on?
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
Right now we are in a 1890s house in N. Fla, going to 32 tonight, which seems better than -8 last night
in KS, but with no insulation and wood stove, it is more work and cooler than it would be at home
inside. No heat at all in the upstairs bedroom.
Ian, it seemed like a good deal, but not sure I want to install them myself. May do it, depending on
what the local HVAC guy can do as a comparison.
Bill
in KS, but with no insulation and wood stove, it is more work and cooler than it would be at home
inside. No heat at all in the upstairs bedroom.
Ian, it seemed like a good deal, but not sure I want to install them myself. May do it, depending on
what the local HVAC guy can do as a comparison.
Bill
