44 mag SRH

[Brad]

Did some shooting today with the 44 mag Super Redhawk. I put my 2X scope on it to make sighting easier.
Load was a 44/444 305HP by MP Moulds. I cast them from range scrap and water dropped. Lube was God knows what, it was in the Star so I used it, it was something I made last year. Powder was 17 gr of WC820 lit by a CCI 350 primer. Brass is stuff I have had for as long as I have had the revolver and that is approaching 20 years.

At 100 yards off the bench I started by firing 5 rounds of a different load with an old Lee GB Keith type bullet and whatever the load was. I only had 15 of the "good" stuff so I wanted to be sure I was on paper to start.

The hole with an arrow to it is one of the 5 I used to verify I was on paper. I dropped a couple low but the group of 13 is about 3 inches wide and maybe 1.5 inches tall. I was tickled pink with this.

Now to get some new brass, H110, and some Fed primers and see how much smaller I can get it.

 

[Rick]

Nice! I can't speak to 820, never used it. From what you described the single best thing to do next would be the new brass. All fired the same number of times, sized exactly the same etc., neck tension is critical to consistency.

Nice shooting Brad, I know guys that would wet their pants if they ever did that with a revolver at 100 yards. Of course they are convinced beforehand that a revolver can't do that so . . .

 

[Brad]

Any brand of brass you prefer? This was WW. I am a big fan of Starline, when it is avaialable.

 

[Ian]

Mind over matter. Looks like GNW lube did just fine. Was the "good" stuff Ben's Red?

I wish you luck finding Federal primers, but also endorse them heavily in the .44s.

Starline brass is always available direct from Starline, even if they are out of stock it isn't usually for very long and they will accept backorders. WW brass gets sold for scrap at my house.

 

[Rick]

Scrap huh? Wish I could buy it for scrap prices. My preferred for long range competition with the 357 was IMI but that became unobtanium several years ago. Since then I've used WW exclusively usually buying it in lot's of 500 or 1000.

One of the areas that I agree with 44man is the use of standard primers in the 44 mag.

I've used a bunch of Starline though not in competition, never found fault with it just hadn't used it there. If you can get it go for it. Starline is what I currently have for the 44 Spec, 44 mag, 45 Colt & probably others because it was obtanium.

 

[Brad]

The lube was something with lots of microwax and paraffin. No beeswax from the way it feels. I think it was a microwax TnT modification.
The "good" stuff was this ammo. It was vastly better than the 44 Ketih bullets I had been shooting and that were used to verify I was on paper. Five of those made a one foot or so group.
This bullet has 3 crimp grooves so I can seat it long. The SRH cylinder is pretty long so this gives more powder space but can cause shorter nose bullets to not be anywhere near the throat. This bullet is snug in the throats sized .4315 so it is well supported thru ignition and into the forcing cone. No wonder why it shot so well.

 

[Brad]

500 shiny new Starlne cases are now on order.
Will look around for some Fed primers this weekend.

 

[Rick]

This bullet is snug in the throats sized .4315 so it is well supported thru ignition and into the forcing cone. No wonder why it shot so well.

Now where have I heard that before?

 

[Brad]

Ummmmmm, a little birdie told me?
The new Star die I made is working wonderfully for this gun. I found that my .432 was big enough that the bullet was being sized by the cylinder throats.

Have I ever mentioned how nice it is to have a lathe?

 

[Rick]

500 shiny new Starlne cases are now on order.
Will look around for some Fed primers this weekend.

Trim to uniform length. Once they are fired neck size only. Keep them in their own box and do not mix them with any other brass. Do not reload any in that box until they have all been fired. Keep them all fired the same number of times. An extra heavy crimp is not needed, only enough to keep the bullets from pulling forward under recoil. Uniform ignition comes from uniform neck tension. Crimp is only for bullet movement under recoil.

 

[Brad]

I better order a case holder for the Wilson trimmer.
By neck size only I assume you mean only run the sizer far enough down the case to hold the bullet firmly? Go to the base of the bullet? Maybe 1/8 inch below the base?

Crimp will be enough to fold the case into the groove and nothing more.

 

[Rick]

I found that my .432 was big enough that the bullet was being sized by the cylinder throats.

Have I ever mentioned how nice it is to have a lathe?

Far too many people believe that revolver throats are bullet sizers. They are not! Yes, they work superbly as sizers but that is not their purpose. There is but one purpose of revolver throats and your accuracy will improve if you use them for that purpose and not as sizers. The throat is in that cylinder for exactly the same reason there is one in your rifles. With a mild snug fit in the throats the throat will align the center line of the bullet with the center line of the bore and guide it straight into the bore. The less you molest the bullet by sizing it in the throat or trying to bump it back up in the barrel the better it will shoot.

No, do you have a lathe?

 

[Rick]

By neck size only I assume you mean only run the sizer far enough down the case to hold the bullet firmly? Go to the base of the bullet? Maybe 1/8 inch below the base?

Yes, the purpose goes to holding the bullet center line in a straight line with the center line of the bore. By leaving the rear of the brass unsized to better fit the chamber and the bullet a mild snug fit in the throat the cartridge will not lay at an angle in the chamber. I don't leave an extra 1/8 inch. Lay the case on the bench, lay the bullet next to it to where the case mouth is in line with the crimp groove, use a magic marker to mark the case at the base of the bullet, adjust sizer die to the mark.

 

[Ian]

Drill press, piece o' glass, and a Lee case trimmer is how I trim pistol brass. Reminds me, I have 1200 once-fired military .38s that need a good trim.

 

[Brad]

The Wilson case holder is cheaper than buying a drill press?

I could probably make a case holder on the lathe. Might just try that and see what happens.

 

[Brad]

Ok Rick, do I try a different heat treat temp or try a slightly harder alloy first? I like this low Sb low Sn alloy but I think a bit more tin would help fill out.
I can easily alter heat treat temp I just need to cast em then treat em and wait.

 

[Rick]

Were it me I would keep the Sn at no more than the Sb. Keep in mind that the Sb percentage is what will determine the aging time curve. The lower the Sb the longer it will take to reach final strength. 18 BHN should be more than hard enough in the 44, my 454 shot them well. How hard are they now and how long did they age?

 

[Brad]

Those had aged for a month or so. They currently test 22-23 BHn.
Would be easy enough to heat treat them to a lower temp and reduce the hardness a bit. Those were water dropped so I bet heat treat to 400 for an hour would work. I can easily test some at 375 too and see what works best in that gun.

If I change the alloy at all it would be to increase tin a small amount. They currently only have 1/4 % tin and increasing to 1/2 to 3/4 would improve fillout a bit.

 

[Rick]

Ok, balance the Sb/Sn. As for BHN the 44 should be around 38,000 CUP, not all that high of pressure. My 357 is over 40,000 PSI in the FA and does it's best with 18 BH. Harder opens up groups, not a lot but still.

 

[Ian]

I consider half a percent tin a minimum. I've read that it acts as a grain refiner to the Pb/Sb alloy up to about that percentage, then it starts functioning primarily in the cause of tying up Sb in Sb/Sn, which may or may not be desirable depending on the particular thing you're trying to do. I know for sure that tin less than a half a percent makes casting a real buggar and the bullets smash-test very differently than with a percent or more.