44 mag SRH

[Rick]

My CWW is at 2% Sb and I add 2% Sn, puts me a bit over the Sb with CWW's 0.5% Sn but it's close and it's worked well for many years, rifle and handgun.

Not trying to get you mad but it is ok if you turn a little green, back when pure bar tin was $6 a pound I stock piled it, still have about 30 pounds left.

 

[Brad]

Tin is the one metal I am rather poor in.
I do have 200 pounds of monotype to play with along with 3/4 ton of range scrap. Might do some playing with the alloy calculator. Easy to figure something out to get a bit of extra tin in there. If all else fails I can get a few pounds from Rotometals.

 

[Lee S. Forsberg]

Good shooting!! What brand of scope are you using? What is your casting temp., gas-check or plane base bullet? Sorry for all the questions I shoot a scoped Super Redhawk also and would like to get it to shoot as well as yours. However, when all's said and done I think most of my problem is operator error.

 

[Brad]

A PM from Rick got me thinking about this revolver. This gun taught me a bunch. I bought it in 97 or so. Shot a bunch of 24 gr H110 with a Honady 240 XTP. Shot a deer with it.
Once I got a Chrony a few years later I checked that load. Way below book, like better than 200 fps slower. Hmmmm
I then shot some Lyman 429421 sized .429 cause Lyman said that was the right size. Got good at cleaning lead out of the barrel too. This was with "hard" bullets because they were better, right?
Finally discovered it had cylinder throats closer to .432 than .429. Explained the leading and low velocities to a large extent.
I got a Lee GB mould for a Keith bullet and peddled with it for years and years. Finally decided to get the new mould when my FIL gave me his 444 Marlin a couple years ago for Christmas. Needed a good 300 gr mould that would fit the chamber and throat of the rifle and this one fit the bill.

In short, this revolver taught me to question the "rules" as put forth in the Lyman manuals. It brought me to the old CB site before it moved to its current home.

I really owe a bunch to this one gun, don't I?

 

[Brad]

Good shooting!! What brand of scope are you using? What is your casting temp., gas-check or plane base bullet? Sorry for all the questions I shoot a scoped Super Redhawk also and would like to get it to shoot as well as yours. However, when all's said and done I think most of my problem is operator error.

I am using a 2x Leupould. The bullet is an MP 44/444 305 HP. http://www.mp-molds.com
Last I knew he had some left.
Being able to seat the bullet long enough to have it supported by the cylinder throats makes a world of difference.
The bullets were cast from range scrap I collects and water dropped. I cast these at 740 degrees. I plan to slightly alter that alloy in the future and change my heat treat process a bit.

 

[Ian]

Hey, first thread to make two pages! And it wasn't even a bullet lube or HV thread. Give it time......

 

[Brad]

Hey, first thread to make two pages! And it wasn't even a bullet lube or HV thread. Give it time......

Well if you would get out and shoot we could have 3 pages on lube.
This warm Nebraska weather is nice, want me to send some to Texas?

 

[Ian]

The good news is we're now on the less stupid side of Ben Franklin's idea of saving time, so I have some daylight left after work to go by the range on the way home occasionally and get a little extra shooting in. You can keep your weather, but thanks anyway, we make plenty of our own. Tomorrow's supposed to be 75.

 

[358156hp]

I hate to admit it, but those groups are better than I got with my 30/30 Contender with 150 gr Nosler match bullets. I also hate to mention that it had a 4X Leupold M8 on it.

 

[Rick]

You might want to do a chamber/throat cast on that T/C, they are pretty well known for not having the best or the straightest throating.

 

[358156hp]

I got even with it some time back I sold it off. I'm pretty much a revolver & 1911 man now. I'm old enough that I feel I've earned the rights for a few quirks.

 

[Rick]

This chart shows the effect of crimp on revolver loads and demonstrates how important consistent neck tension is.

Hhmmm . . . It uploaded the file but didn't place it in the post. It opens the Word program and displays there. Fine for those that have Word but for those that don't ??

 

[Rick]

This is the same chart from my last post done as a cut & paste. Took some re-formatting but it is in the post.

Crimp Tests
FA 357 Mag 9” (This is Freedom Arms load data ONLY)

RCBS 180 GC Silhouette @ 192 gr. (CWW +2% Sn HT @ 18 BHN)
16.0 gr. H-110
Winchester brass
CCI 550 primer
Temp 700 Humidity 38%

All chrono tests 10 shots
1>
My normal profile crimp, second firing of WW brass, Carbide die sized
E.S. 30
A.V. 1518
S.D. 9
2>
Roll crimp, second firing of WW brass, Carbide die sized
E.S. 30
A.V. 1520
S.D. 9
3>
No crimp, second firing of WW brass, Carbide die sized, very slight bell
E.S. 30
A.V. 1528
S.D. 9
4>
Light profile crimp, virgin WW brass, not sized, not expanded, slight bell only
E.S. 26
A.V. 1532
S.D. 8
5>
My normal profile crimp, virgin WW brass, not sized, not expanded, slight bell only
E.S. 26
A.V. 1536
S.D. 8

 

[358156hp]

I learned an important lesson from this information. First of all, I've always been in the group of people who believe that carbide sizing dies oversize (undersize) the brass. The Extreme Spread (ES) climbs, as does the standard deviation (SD). It looks like a high bullet pull may actually be detrimental to consistency. I'm on the fence about crimp though. I freely admit that using the age old advice for a heavy, firm crimp is not always appropriate for all situations. As far as sizing goes, have you tried old-style steel sizing dies? They were slightly tapered towards the case mouth. I guess I need to get my finances sorted out and buy another chronograph, and run tests like this myself so I can contribute more. Reddings new Dual Insert sizing die suggests untapped potential there too, but for my needs, the price is difficult to justify.

 

[Brad]

This chart shows the effect of crimp on revolver loads and demonstrates how important consistent neck tension is.

Hhmmm . . . It uploaded the file but didn't place it in the post. It opens the Word program and displays there. Fine for those that have Word but for those that don't ??

I viewed it fine with my iPad. It opens just like any file.

 

[358156hp]

You guys are working me too hard. All this thinking makes my head hurt at times. After my last post I went to the dungeon and sized a few pieces of .357 mag brass. By coincidence, I have samples of Starline 357 brass, and both a steel and a carbide sizing die for .357. My new Starline brass has the "Bob" headstamp offered through Midway several years back, and unsized runs .375 (OD) at the web, and at the base. My elderly Hornady Durachrome carbide die sized fired brass from the same lot to .372 straight down. My Durachrome steel sizing die sized the mouths to .366 at the mouth and to .378 at the base. It felt weird to lube handgun cases after all these years. That's really quite a bit of taper. I guess the next step is to load a decent test sample and compare them the way Rick did above.

 

[Rick]

HP, measuring brass sized with different dies is fine but what do you make of tests 4 & 5?

 

[Brad]

How much is a new, unfired case sized by the sizer?

 

[Rick]

New brass is sized already as part of it's manufacture. See test 4 & 5 in the chart, what would be the purpose of working the brass by sizing it down and then running an expander into it to stretch it back out?

The key to that test is that throughout the neck tension was the same regardless how it was prepped. The unsized virgin brass had the same neck tension as the second firing sized brass. The neck tension was the same for all of the different crimps including no crimp at all. If it weren't the chrono numbers couldn't be the same.

 

[358156hp]

Much to take in for such a seemingly small test. Crimp, at least with this combination appears to only serve to keep the bullets from pulling out under inertia in the unfired chambers. Case neck tension appears to remain consistent regardless of case sizing. I'll add that this would be dependent on the uniformity of case hardness due to potential work hardening. This would mesh neatly with your earlier post regarding prepping new matching cases, and using them in rotation so as to work all cases equally and evenly. I got wrapped up in number crunching earlier, failing to acknowledge that 18 FPS difference in average velocity is insignificant. I honestly chased that 18 FPS both times I've seen this material.