45-70 Blow up

[waco]

I see no less than 13 loading manuals on my bench right now. I always like to cross reference stuff. The only online data I trust is from a few of the powder companies or the same people who write the manuals.

 

[Brad]

There are old reloaders
There are bold reloaders
There are no old, bold reloaders

 

[oscarflytyer]

I like the analog analogy. singe stage for 30+ years. all I will ever use. same thing for an RCBS Posi-prime hand primer. Only way I have ever primed (except shotgun shells)

 

[oscarflytyer]

There are old reloaders
There are bold reloaders
There are no old, bold reloaders

if there are, they have to pick their nose with someone else's finger!

 

[freebullet]

A few newbies here have learned, to their surprise, that a progressive is not as easy as an experienced loader makes it look.

If your not mechanical minded it's probably a bad plan to go full autoprogressive. You don't want to be caught in the round per hour trap.

I run both. Lnl ap for batches above 1k & single for smaller. Nothing wrong with either way, but it's up to you to make sure the ammo is safe.

 

[KHornet]

Someone mentioned, and I agree, that there are to many new reloaders (not all young), with to much money, and who lack the common sense to read and compare manuals. Like Waco, I have a whoop of manuals, (old, new, and inbetween). Regardless of what I am loading, and how many times I have loaded it, I always go back and look at a couple of manuals. Freebullet gives good advice regarding progressive equipment. New loaders would be most often better off with a lee tool, or a 310 Tool, or a plain old C-press, a scale, and a measure.

Regardless of who writes the thread recommendation, I always verify and cross reference with a couple of manuals before I try a load recommended on line. BUT: Regardless of how careful we are, once in awhile, like the lettering on the pregnant ladies sweat shirt says: "Poo Poo Occurs"!

Paul

 

[smokeywolf]

I've never been in a hurry to make cartridges. Been using the same Hollywood single stage that Dad bought back in I think the late '40s. He pretty much stopped reloading in the mid '60s and I started a few years later. Someday I may graduate to a turret, but I enjoy "the process" too much to use a progressive.
The internet is a source that can't be ignored nor under-rated. However, because any cowboy can sit down at a keyboard and post the amazing results his cousin got with the new 'master-blaster powder', data sourced from the internet will never be as accurate and dependable as that gleaned from manuals. The noobies must be schooled to understand that the internet must not be used as a shortcut, but a secondary source. Those who are in a hurry or don't want to buy and read the manuals need to be encouraged to acquire their ammo at the LGS or sporting goods store.

 

[Ian]

With the internet forums and utoob, you can become an instant expert in anything, particularly if you were using Holiday Inn Express wi-fi to look it up. This approach is so much the "M. O." of our latest internet-educated generation that they seem to have no other information resource or learning style. How many thread titles begin with "what's the best load for .xxx?", if they even bother to put the question mark when thumbing out the words on a phone.

 

[Bret4207]

What really gets you is when you are on a machinists forum and see a gun writer you recognize as moderately prolific and respected asking for load info for a 300 Win Mag! Gods honest truth. I saw that, responded that I thought a pro gun writer would have oodles of manuals and was chastised by Mr Pro GunWriter for questioning his methods since he was "...a published author and regular contributor to_______________". This is/was one of the guys the noobs looked to for advice. It just struck me as odd that a hick in the sticks like me has 4 feet plus of shelf space filled with manuals from the 1920's-present and Mr. Pro couldn't even go to a powder co website for info. Maybe I'm too critical, but I've seen too much weird, odd and out right bizarre info online to trust much of it. My go to manuals are Ken Waters "Pet Loads" and 2 older Lyman and Hornady books. I haven't kept up with the "Powder of the Month Club" so my "newest" powder is R21. I'm behind the times and perfectly happy there! Should the day come I feel the need for a can of the newly developed "Blamo Super Duper Short Cut Extra Progressive Mk17" powder, I'll go to the makers website and peruse the data there. Seems a prudent place to start to me...

 

[Rick]

Yep, very prudent. To many though it seems "prudent" is a silly waste of time.

 

[Gary]

It's a manifestation of being "taught" NOT TO THINK for themselves. Critical thinking is a thing of the past for a vast segment of younger society today. Started way back in Elementary School in the 1960's (I know, I was there) and has resulted in the dumb'in down of the "educated masses of today. An Eighth Grade graduate of the 1920's actually was more "educated" than the average college grad of today. Don't believe me, Google Eighth Grade Graduation Test of the 1920's, it provides a very good example.
Seems the "educated" of today have little to no ability to think for themselves. (admittedly a generalization)

 

[KHornet]

Gary, Tend to agree strongly with your thread. Liberal thought, has become no original thought on the part of many, and nothing but the thought(s) of others. There was no victim society in the 20's thru the 40's, and into the mid 50's. I spent 15 years around academia as a safety director in the late 80's and 90's. The majority of faculty, (large percentage of PHd's) had never done a days physical labor in their entire lives. The expectation on their part was for students to matriculate, cooperate, and graduate. Little or no thought required as long as tuition was paid. Education in the last 40-50 years has become a money game. A shame for sure.

Prior to Viet Nam, flag waving and patriotism was common and expected.Now it is rare! The majority of those under 35 today are follow the leader "Sheeples", and the leaders are radical.
(also a generalization on my part, based on old age and experience however)
Paul

 

[Bret4207]

KHornet, I have to disagree to an extent with your "no victim society" opinion. The "victim society" was a large part of what drove the Civil Wars start, was the reason for the creation of states like Maryland (a Catholic refuge IIRC) and was the chief driver in the Prohibition movement (Dad was off boozing it up while his beleaguered wife and children starved/froze in their tenement). It wasn't the same type of "victimhood" we see today, but it did exist.

I agree with the demise of critical thinking in education. But I wonder if it was that much different back in the day when people were taught "facts" that even then must have defied common sense and observation. I would think even then some folks must have said, "Yeah, right." and moved on. I see the same thing today when people simply refuse to accept the fact that we don't know what we don't know in many areas. Currently a lot of "fact" is no more than opinion, some of it bordering on propaganda, and much of it agenda based opinion at that. Those that retain the humility to accept that maybe we just don't have all the facts involved in a given issue are rarely applauded for their critical thinking, but are often labeled with rather nasty titles implying a less than average IQ. And academia seems to be leading this charge to have just one set of "facts" and to brand all others what amounts to "heretics". I guess the more things change, the more they stay the same after all.

Our colleges and universities are profit driven entities. They are an industry, call it "Big Ed" for short. Nothing new there.

 

[Ian]

The internet is not to blame, and true, society has always been screwed up. The education system 60 years ago was different, though. Public schools insisted you learn the curriculum, which wasn't "dumbed down" to the laziest or slowest student. Teachers weren't prevented from being insistent about their jobs. By the time a person graduated high school, they at least had a clue about the country in which they lived, the basic history of the world, culture, geography, arithmetic, and hadn't had the ability to think for themselves and work out problems destroyed. Also we had parents, in many cases (or most, IDK) one parent was at home to take care of the kids because things didn't cost much and taxes were more reasonable. Then somebody figured out that putting women in the workforce doubled the workforce, drove down wages, and doubled taxable income. It also took mommy away from her babies. Babies were brought up by outsiders and the school system. Parents were too exhausted to spend quality time with their kids. Kids were then at the mercy of the institutions, without a good sense of the high values that may have been encouraged at home. So things started breaking down, and for about three generations now we're nothing more than a bunch of ignorant, valueless savages turned into obedient sheep by a system, and you see the result of it everywhere today.

My family will not be like that. We make a lot of financial sacrifices to ensure that my wife can be a home-maker, and now a stay-at-home mom. We both come from strong families with strong values and will pass that on to our children. It's hard to fight the system, you should see the "concerned" looks on people's faces every time we fill out a form and put "Homemaker" as my wife's occupation, something is nearly always said about it. It's so condemned for her not to work outside the home that it's almost like people think I'm some cult weirdo who keeps her locked in the basement. Really. We get that all the time.

 

[Bret4207]

I applaud you for trying to stuck to your guns. We went through the "weird looks" when we adopted, were homeschooling and people found out we actually attended church. I know the looks. But a lot of women were compelled to enter the workforce by circumstance. It wasn't like there was a master plan. But yeah, ignorant valueless savages is pretty much right on from where I sit. Add in the freakin' "smart phone" that it seems most people can't put down for 30 seconds and we have a society that looks an awful lot like the one in the B (maybe a C?) movie "Idiocracy".

 

[waco]

Good for you Ian. Best wishes to you and yours.

 

[Ian]

I try to resist the impulse to don my tin foil Stetson too much, but that impulse is born of too many experiences and observations. My parents were one of the first two families to win against truancy charges brought against them by the State of Texas for homeschooling me, and that paved the way for what is now commonplace. They fought up through several layers of appeals courts to do it, but eventually persevered. It helped that both of my parents are certified, professional teachers and hold multiple master's degrees. Later, I chose to attend high school as a springboard to college, and am very glad I did, but also glad my parents had total discretion in my upbringing to that point.

Thanks, Walter!

 

[S Mac]

I'll add kudos to you and the wife Ian. You are definitely swimming upstream with her staying home with the young one but it will pay big dividends. 30 something years ago we went that route, and know the way other people will react. Persevere.

 

[JSH]

Paul, I think we can declare an official hijack of the thread, lol.

None the less I see a good bunch of guys expressing their opinions in a rational way. That's what makes this place great.

Went to my favorite gun shop today. Picked up a few more load manuals that I didn't have. Some of those old articles still answer today's questions.

Jeff

 

[KHornet]

See your point Bret, but don't concur fully. That of course is what makes a
horse race.

Paul