Another horrible day with the 1894 44 mag.

[Will]

I have been struggling with me marlin 1894 44 magnum for years. I really want it to shoot and a couple times a year I decide to give it a try again.
Brad was nice enough to send me some 265gr ranch dogs to try out. I really had high hopes for this bullet, but was once again disappointed. I tried loads with unique, 2400, and AA#9. I will post pics below of the 2 best groups which were with AA#9.
None of these groups were anything to be proud of. Most were 5 1/2" plus. All were shot at 50yds.
It was a nice evening to go relax and shoot though.

 

[Brother_Love]

Sorry about your 94 but I love your shooting bench.

 

[quicksylver]

Will...I like everything I see...bench,94,SUV...
But ..I KNOW, I KNOW...have you taken the scope off and check the mounts..then check the scope on the bases or mount..?
I went trough the same thing with an 03...scope seemed solid as a rock...but then I finally took the scope off the bases only to find the bases were loose...
The scope when attached to the mounting system makes the whole thing seem solid..

Other than that...maybe a different dia. bullet
.001 up and down from what you are using..

 

[Ian]

Rats. I know the frustration when a rifle just doesn't want to shoot. I wonder if the twist rate has anything to do with it?

 

[Will]

Im sure mine is a 1-38" twist Ballard rifling. I'm gonna try H110 or 296 win next. I also thought about using 300MP and really getting the velocity up.
Brad also sent me some lighter bullets that may work better with the slow twist.

 

[Will]

If things don't improve I'll pull the scope off and check it.

 

[freebullet]

I have no experience with those exact components but, I'd redo the 16gr #9 test and move the oal around to see what happens. Could learn several things at that point.

 

[9.3X62AL]

That 1-38" twist says "44/40 bullet weight" to me. That is the twist rate's genesis, at least--short squatty little fat bullets in the 200-217 grain weight range. Lever guns are not found at either Camp Perry or at benchrest matches, could be some good reasons for that. If I get 3" groups at 100 yards from a levergun, I am ecstatic. Some can do better, most don't.

I still love the contraptions, though. For 95% of my varmint and deer hunting, the modest accuracy potential of the k'boy artillery does the job at the distances involved. EVERY deer I have shot to date was well within levergun range, and half of them were taken with leverguns. Minute-of-blacktail is not a daunting standard, and any jackrabbit within 125 yards is TOAST with my 25/20 or 32/20 Marlins.

I like my Winchester/Miroku in 44 Magnum's twist rate--in the 1-24" ballpark. It drills castings into 1"-1-1/4" 5-shotters at 50 yards, usually an Accurate 250 grain RNFP/GC at about 1800 FPS. SAECO 200 grain #446 (plain based FN) at 1100 FPS shoots about as well, maybe 1/4" bigger group at 50. I am in search of a good 357 Magnum levergun currently, and wish to BLEEP that Winchester would bring some in. They seem to be unobtainium right now.

 

[300BLK]

I had a microgroove 44 mag many years ago that was a tackdriver with 240gr jacketed IF I backed off the 296 from 24gr down to 22gr. My current 44mag has the Ballard rifling, and I'm working with plain based Lee 200gr RF. One thing that I noticed was that if the side and bottom action screws loosened up a little, the groups opened considerably. I need to disassemble, clean, and loctite this bugger.

 

[358156 hp]

Have you slugged your bore? I used to run lever actions a lot, and noticed that most of the ones I had showed signs of bore constriction in the areas of dovetail cuts, and barrel band areas. The lead laps would highlight the areas that were constricted. The lap would move easier through the full bore areas, but catch a bit at the constrictions. I firelapped a number of them to clean the bores up.

 

[Brad]

Some excellent advice has been given here. Make sure the screws are all snug, the bottom screw in front of the lever and the screw on the opposite side from the loading gate like to loosten.
Fire lapping might not be a bad idea.
H110 should work as well as anything. Keep loads on the heavy side with it. I get 1600 fps or better with those bullets using H110.
Your 16 gr of AA9 group looks mch like some of mine. Vertical groups are common with my rifle. I think it is due to small changes in where the forearm rested on the front rest. That load might be one to keep in mind and do some playing with. Try a different primer? Mine shoots best with H110 using a mag primer, either a CCI or a Federal.
Rick would ask if the cases are all the same lot and fired the same number of times. that makes a huge difference.
How much are the cases being sized? I size just to the bottom of the bullet.
Don't over expand the case and case mouth. I made a new expander that only flares to case mouth, the expander hardly touches the inside of the case. Lots of case tension there.

I need to break out some jacketed and shoot some as a baseline.

 

[Winelover]

Try 16 grains of 2400 with a WLP primer. No need for full throttle loads......this is my deer load with NOE's 265 RNFP copy of Ranch Dog's bullet.

 

[KHornet]

Not fancy, but super glue does a job on bases w/loctight or nail polish on the screw threads.

 

[RBHarter]

I'm having an issue with 2 Rosschester 92's at 25 they're great @ 50 they still get it done . At 75 yd they are sloppy but still good enough to be hog shooters I'll speculate that someplace immediately past that ,seriously like 78 yd they start climb 8-10 ft in 25-30 yd . This from a 45 Colts. Both have the 30 twist . 1 is 16" the other 20" , 1 early ,one 3 yr old.
1st I blamed the Lee 452-252 SWC for the key holes at 50 yd but the results didn't change with a 452-255 RNFP or a 454424 or with a patched 429426 cast at 448 . It's better if held under 1100 fps (I'm at 4000 ft and very dry) ,but that sort of takes the fun out of having a 7.5 Ruger Blackhawk that shoots loads at 1050 into 5" 50 yd groups with just a shoulder leaning Weaver stance .
My suspect is that
A. The bullet isn't holding the rifling enough to reach full spin ,the 50/50 is too soft .
B. The aerodynamics are killing me and the bullet is becoming like a riser pitch in baseball.
For what it's worth I've shot up to 18.5 gr of H110 from a Hogdon book load of 18-19.5 for 1325 ten ft from the muzzle in the 16" and Unique to 9.5 gr for 1050 out of the RBH and 1275 from the 16" .
I don't have any jacketed ammo to shoot against these or jacketed bullets to load . It is humbling to have success in a hot roded revolver and eat crow in a rifle of the same caliber.
The worst part is that I have 25# of the RNFP and 5# of each of the others ......the 454424 is a single cavity.

You aren't alone in the pistol carbine rifle angst. I'm very close to having the 16" rebbl'd with a twenty inch 1-16 and a match chamber .

There is 1 more aggrevation that has been found . The chamber in the 16" is way ,way too long. I didn't write it down but 1.32 is fresh in my mind , half way between Colts and Casuall.

I don't know if any of this will be of any help but if it opens a door and has a key then it's a win.

 

[Ian]

Harter, sounds like you're having issues with the bullets buffeting as they drop below the sound barrier out at 75 yards or so. 30" twist is probably not enough to keep the 250s stable when that happens.

 

[Brad]

I just loaded 20 rounds with a 240 XTP over 24 gr of H110. Will shoot them when time allows. This should give me some idea of what the rifle can do.

 

[Ian]

Brad, shoot those PC'd bullets over about 19-20 grains of 2400 with a Federal 210 when you get a chance, inquiring minds want to know.....

 

[RBHarter]

Ian that is my suspect. It could be an issue with the 44 also or a factor .

I did find some really hard commercial 45 cal cast in the piles it can't hurt to try them .

 

[Will]

I loaded 3 different kinds of bullets last night with various loads of H110. I may try to shoot a few this evening.

 

[Brad]

Will, can you get me a measurement across the mouth of a case flaired to accept a bullet?