Danged Pinholes
- Thread starter Chris C
- Start date
Chris C
Active Member
And what would they be telling me?
Ian
Notorious member
Whatever you find convenient, it doesn't have to be to rocket surgery precision. A pint is a pound the world 'round and the waxes all fall into pretty much the same specific gravity range.
Before we get too carried away throwing suggestions at you, try to understand what's likely going on with that load. The powder isn't happy because the pressure, though probably about right for your alloy, is below its ideal burn pressure range. That makes lots of extra carbon. The thick, oily hydrogenated oil in your lube mixes with this and makes a gummy mess in the barrel which accumulates and purges every few shots. The extra jump to the lands exacerbates the sluggish powder burn. I'm guessing you filled both grooves by the quantity of black goo around some of your bullet holes. Nothing wrong with filling both grooves if your lube will go liquid soon enough, not be too slick, and fling off at the muzzle.
At this point, I would recommend to just change one thing. Change to a faster-burning powder, change to a less viscous but less slippery lube, or change your seating depth. Or do all three and note the differences.
A 50/50 mix of beeswax and Vaseline is dang near impossible to beat for sub-25K psi loads fired in comfortable weather.
Ian
Notorious member
I threw some things out there for you to mull over back on post #55. The point isn't to tell you what I'd try next so much as to get you to thinking what problems you have, what their cause might be, and what things to try which might solve them.
I do believe that a successful load could probably be developed with every single powder you listed, and with the bullet mould you designed.
I do believe that a successful load could probably be developed with every single powder you listed, and with the bullet mould you designed.
Chris C
Active Member
Okay. Sorry to be asking so many questions. My problem is I don't know how to define a problem, or what the cause might be or what kind of things to try to solve them. Sucks being a newbie. You took one look at my targets and immediately said I needed to throw away my lube. I've been using that lube for 5 years, along with all of my friends...........who all swear by it. I had no idea it was a bad lube. No reason to think it was a bad lube. I'll go buy some bees wax in the next few days and make up some Ben's Red or Bees wax and Vaseline 50/50 and see if that corrects the black rings around the holes in my targets.
Ian
Notorious member
Don't apologize for asking questions, that's how we learn! This isn't all that complicated to work out once you understand the basics of what's been discussed so far. I tend to over-analyze and over-explain simple things, so I owe you an apology for making this seem overwhelming. Some people like to try to understand every nuance and some of this stuff I can break down into pretty small pieces, some of it not so much. The important thing is to think about what is going on inside the rifle and how to accomplish the end goals of making the bullet go into the rifling absolutely straight, come out of the muzzle straight, and how to duplicate the same thing exactly each time.
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
Overstay your welcome? Not even close. You have asked some questions that stimulated some interesting discussions. You made the forum a better place in just a few weeks.
You thank us for answering, we thank you for asking!
Please keep asking. We all learn from the discussion.
You thank us for answering, we thank you for asking!
Please keep asking. We all learn from the discussion.
Ian
Notorious member
I never intended to mean it was a bad lube in a general way, I said the powder you're using and the "system", meaning bullet, alloy, rifle, charge weights, etc. doesn't happen to like it in that instance, and your targets were telling you that. It worked a lot better with Unique in that rifle, didn't it? That should tell you something. Given the observation that the lube isn't flowing well, is picking up excess powder residue, not clearing itself out of the bore every shot but every few shots, think about why it isn't working with the 4198 at mid-teens in peak PSI. I mentioned it is too viscous and too slippery for the low-pressure start and for the amount of trash the powder is leaving behind. So if you want to continue working with 4198, change the lube first and keep working with charge weights and seating depth (you might find 4198 will shoot better with the bullet snugged up into the throat). Or switch powders and keep using the same lube. Which powder to switch to? A faster-burning one that will peak pressure and heat faster and get that lube flowing. Seating the bullet longer to touch the throat will also bump pressure and bump the pressure curve up toward the ignition end, possibly accomplishing the same thing. Or, keep going UP in powder and leave all else the same, you have some headroom left to go with the 4198 to see if it will start to clean up and begin to develop a consistent bore condition and consistent ignition and burn curve at the same time. Lots of things to try.
Take a deep breath and consider what you've done so far. You've gotten your cartridge to fit the chamber better, reduced the tolerances there so the bullet has a better chance of physically hitting the ball seat in the middle. But your groups were drastically worse than what you were attempting to improve before....so look at what else you changed. You changed powder and seating depth. How could changing those things in the particular way you changed them be a step backwards? It's a puzzle to ponder and work out some theoretical solutions, ask questions about them, and make some decisions about what to try next.
Ian
Notorious member
Staying and asking and sharing and learning is the whole reason this board exists. I for one appreciate the opportunity to make some payments on a debt.
Chris C
Active Member
Ian, the quote about you taking one look at the targets and saying I needed a different lube........to throw it away, was written because I've gone all this time with this one lube and you were able to take one look at a target and see it wasn't working in my system. I didn't meant your statement offended me. I'm too damned old to offend that easily. I want/need to be able to catch things like that and say............Hmmmmm, what's causing this? But I didn't even notice it.
I've a long list of tests to run. I think the first thing to work on is the lube. I'm going to go out to my shop and look at older targets and see if the holes are ringed with remnants of lube. I've got a neck sizing die in route from RCBS to open the neck to .378". I adjusted the cartridge sizing die last night and it now sizes to .376". To start, I'll thin down some of my present lube with 20% Vaseline and start there.
I've a long list of tests to run. I think the first thing to work on is the lube. I'm going to go out to my shop and look at older targets and see if the holes are ringed with remnants of lube. I've got a neck sizing die in route from RCBS to open the neck to .378". I adjusted the cartridge sizing die last night and it now sizes to .376". To start, I'll thin down some of my present lube with 20% Vaseline and start there.
Todd M
Craftsman of metals...always learning.
Chris, I echo Brads comment. We all learn from the discussion.
I for one, don't have time to pursue the science of creating the perfect cast boolit load for my rifle so I really enjoy and learn from these discussions (when Ian and Brad use words that I can understand). Take a deep breath and keep on trying to understand. It's helping the rest of us noobs also. Good luck!!
I for one, don't have time to pursue the science of creating the perfect cast boolit load for my rifle so I really enjoy and learn from these discussions (when Ian and Brad use words that I can understand). Take a deep breath and keep on trying to understand. It's helping the rest of us noobs also. Good luck!!Chris,I've been casting and reloading for 40 years.It was only a cpl years ago that I found out that 50/50 beeswax and vaseline wasn't the only "homeboy" lube....
It started because of the cost of store bought.Still is the only lube I use?Don't take this to mean there aren't some great recipes,there are.I've taken it up to 2600fps. in a 22-250.
Have been enjoying your progress!
It started because of the cost of store bought.Still is the only lube I use?Don't take this to mean there aren't some great recipes,there are.I've taken it up to 2600fps. in a 22-250.
Have been enjoying your progress!
Ian
Notorious member
There have been times when I stopped lube development, cleaned my bore, and sanity-checked my load with that formula (or Felix lube if higher-pressure) just to clear my head. There are some things in the shooting world you can pretty much count on to work for you, those are two of them.