Danged Pinholes

[fiver]

yeah I'm getting good at that.
I wish I knew how I was doing it.

 

[Rick]

yeah I'm getting good at that.
I wish I knew how I was doing it.

Should that happen again the fix is simple. Highlight the area and on the far right of the typing box you'll see a capitol < Tx > in italics, underlined and bold with an x next to it, click that and formatting is removed from the highlighted area.
.

 

[Chris C]

I learned a bunch from these guys. Well, they gave me some ideas and I learned at the range.
At this point you just need to load some ammo and shoot. See what happens, take good notes, and look for patterns and tendencies.
It won't be fast, it won't be easy. Hell, it won't always be fun. What it will be is an eye opening experience. You will start to notice things you never knew to even look for.

That's how these forums are supposed to work............and most of the time they do. The only time the forum concept fails is when a real horse's-patoot-know-it-all chimes in and starts a fight. It can ruin everyone's day. Can't wait for the weather to clear so I can run this lead down range to my bullet trap!

 

[Chris C]

Well, the weather changed for the better and I set up my table and everything associated and shot 5 targets, 10 rounds each. All shot with a front rest holding a hard sand-packed owls ears bag. Rear bag filled with polyethylene injection molding pellets. Not super pleased but as Ian said, it's step one. I'm not going to tie up the website with pictures, so I'll just give you links to the target pictures.

First target is 21 gr IMR4198. Very disappointed with this target. All the data on this target goes for all 5 targets.

http://chris623.zenfolio.com/img/s1/v47/p1068239784-4.jpg

Second target is 21.5 gr. Group tightened.

http://chris623.zenfolio.com/img/s6/v134/p752560345-4.jpg

Third target is 22 gr. Group a little tighter.

http://chris623.zenfolio.com/img/s2/v73/p692816269-4.jpg

Fourth target is 22.5 gr. Imagine my excitement when the first 5 shots went into one hole...........and disappointment with the last 5 flew all over Hell's half acre!

http://chris623.zenfolio.com/img/s2/v71/p557618745-4.jpg

Fifth target is 23 gr. Nothing really spectacular.

http://chris623.zenfolio.com/img/s1/v48/p752087412-4.jpg

 

[Ian]

I don't know what lube your are using, but it isn't working for you at all. Dump it or add about 20% Vaseline to it.

You need a lot less of it than you are using and a much, much lower viscosity.

 

[Chris C]

It is a pan lube application. 50% bees wax, 40% Crisco, and 10% Vaseline by weight. What's wrong with it, Ian?

 

[Ian]

Purge city, worst I think I've ever seen. Try 50/50 beeswax/Vaseline.

 

[Chris C]

I've got 10 sticks of White Label BAC on the way. Should be here any day.

 

[4060MAY]

Not to confuse the issue
but
have you tried Breech Seating the bullet?
my best loads with a 38-55 were with SR4759 and 300MP
Breech Seated, RB, 1-14 Green Mountain barrel

 

[Ian]

I've got 10 sticks of White Label BAC on the way. Should be here any day.

Still too stiff. Try the 50/50, or cut BAC with about 20% Vaseline or perhaps 5-8% transmission fluid. Only fill the rear groove.

 

[Chris C]

Not to confuse the issue
but
have you tried Breech Seating the bullet?
my best loads with a 38-55 were with SR4759 and 300MP
Breech Seated, RB, 1-14 Green Mountain barrel

Never breech seated before. SR4759??? I thought you had to use the "Holy Black" to breech seat!

Still too stiff. Try the 50/50, or cut BAC with about 20% Vaseline or perhaps 5-8% transmission fluid. Only fill the rear groove.

I started to say "you're kidding", but obviously you aren't! This stuff is soft enough that when I'm sizing bullets, the stuff that scrapes off I use as a hand lotion. It's not quite hand lotion thin, but I can easily spread it on my old hard cracked hands.

 

[4060MAY]

SR4759...looks like small ditilini, very bulky, has been discontinued again
I use wet type floral foam to hold the powder close to the primer, instead of dacron
Dry type will leave a lot of residue
most of the people that shoot Schuetzen matches Breech Seat their bullets
smokeless or Black Powder
most of my Cartridge BP shooting is with fixed ammo

on the ASSRA Site, search for the thread by J Louis on the 38-55..lot of good info
also there is a whole thread on loads for Schuetzen style shooting

 

[Ian]

Never breech seated before. SR4759??? I thought you had to use the "Holy Black" to breech seat!


I started to say "you're kidding", but obviously you aren't! This stuff is soft enough that when I'm sizing bullets, the stuff that scrapes off I use as a hand lotion. It's not quite hand lotion thin, but I can easily spread it on my old hard cracked hands.

The batch I have is pretty tacky and stiff. You want it to flow early with the slow powder/light charge thing, otherwise it will congeal in the barrel and capture a lot of the powder fouling, which will burp out periodically, throwing the shot. If you can rub it into your skin and make it disappear it's plenty soft enough. If you were using Unique, your other lube would probably be fine.

 

[Chris C]

John is a good friend of mine and has shared some of his bullets with me. In fact, he sent me a bullet that was the tightest shoot bullet I've ever used in this rifle. It was 320 gr and produced the target I showed in post #16, but with 24gr of 4198 behind it, my primer pockets started enlarging.......making the cases useless to me. I've got a lot of SR4759 in my inventory. Might give it a try. What bullet were you breech seating? I've heard this one, a copy of a Hudson mold, is pretty popular. http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=38-316H-D.png

 

[Chris C]

The batch I have is pretty tacky and stiff. You want it to flow early with the slow powder/light charge thing, otherwise it will congeal in the barrel and capture a lot of the powder fouling, which will burp out periodically, throwing the shot. If you can rub it into your skin and make it disappear it's plenty soft enough. If you were using Unique, your other lube would probably be fine.

Well, Unique was my go to powder for a long time. You guys have convinced me it wasn't the best to use in my situation. The lube I'm using now is the lube I've always used. The BAC will be a new one for me, but you say to to cut it with 20% Vaseline? Is that by volume or weight?

 

[Brad]

Weight or volume, pick one. I would use weight as it is far easier for us to measure. You can try 10% first then 20% to see the differences on paper. Lube changes may need a 10 shot group to show up as some purging lubes don't see issues for a few shots.

 

[4060MAY]

Saeco 738. tapered bullet, 265 gr.
and the Lyman 330 gr, Postel style 38cal.
you do not have to get elaborate to Breech Seat bullets
a case with a solid insert, brass works good, .060 sticking out of the case, primer removed
slip the bullet into the chamber, follow with the plugged case, tap it in with a hammer and long punch or rod
make sure the breech block is up enough for the extractor to be flush with the barrel, otherwise the case will go in front of the extractor, not good
tap the bullet home, drop the lever, extract the plugged case, charge a new primed case, floral foam, mosty to keep from dumping a powder charge into the action, close the breech, shoot....

 

[fiver]

the black rings are normally the weird ones.
but even the clean holes went wide.
if you look at the velocity numbers I think you'll find something in there telling you something too.

 

[Chris C]

Thanks. Might be something I'll look in to.

 

[Ian]

It's weird to see clean and dirty holes on the edges of the ragged hole and scattered clean and dirty flyers, but there's no real pattern there. I can see it trying to group, and then falling apart.

The powder selection and charge aren't getting along with the lube, so it's tough to see what the alloy, pressure, and fit are doing.

A 50/50 mix of beeswax and Vaseline is dang near impossible to beat for sub-25K psi loads fired in comfortable weather. Either switch lubes or speed the powder selection up a couple of ticks.