IDEAL 358432, 160 gr. W/C
- Thread starter Ben
- Start date
Eutectic
Active Member
Ben,
As to the vintage of your mold. I have several "IDEAL" molds that were purchased by my father at known times. After the war Dad got back into shooting and gunsmithing. My first gun, a Model 90, was rebuilt and given to me in 1948. A trapdoor Springfield was sporterized and Dad bought an IDEAL mold 457193 direct from Lyman in 1948. It was smooth (no vents) had the larger alignment pins, and the sprue plate lock screw was slotted. Dad bought me a trapdoor .45-70 in 1950 for $14.00 !!!! He bought two Lyman molds at the same time right from them in Middlefield, CT. One was a collar button 457130 (for me) and a Pope mold 308403 for his newly acquired 03.. $5.00 each! He waited for the Pope mold which shipped later. He order a squibb mold later in 1950 311413 as well. ALL these blocks were single cavity smooth (no vents) large pins and a slotted lock screw. In 1953 he ordered two more molds. A 500gr 457125 for me (I was a big kid by then, so I thought) and a 311291 for himself. Both these had vented blocks and the smaller alignment pins. The sprue plate lock screw was still slotted.
All six of these direct factory ordered molds were marked "IDEAL Middlefield, Conn USA"
Pete
As to the vintage of your mold. I have several "IDEAL" molds that were purchased by my father at known times. After the war Dad got back into shooting and gunsmithing. My first gun, a Model 90, was rebuilt and given to me in 1948. A trapdoor Springfield was sporterized and Dad bought an IDEAL mold 457193 direct from Lyman in 1948. It was smooth (no vents) had the larger alignment pins, and the sprue plate lock screw was slotted. Dad bought me a trapdoor .45-70 in 1950 for $14.00 !!!! He bought two Lyman molds at the same time right from them in Middlefield, CT. One was a collar button 457130 (for me) and a Pope mold 308403 for his newly acquired 03.. $5.00 each! He waited for the Pope mold which shipped later. He order a squibb mold later in 1950 311413 as well. ALL these blocks were single cavity smooth (no vents) large pins and a slotted lock screw. In 1953 he ordered two more molds. A 500gr 457125 for me (I was a big kid by then, so I thought) and a 311291 for himself. Both these had vented blocks and the smaller alignment pins. The sprue plate lock screw was still slotted.
All six of these direct factory ordered molds were marked "IDEAL Middlefield, Conn USA"
Pete
Eutectic
Active Member
About very fast pistol powders in rifle calibers and bottleneck case designs.....
Very light loads using this above 'line' may be your most uniform and accurate load!
Why???? I think if we could look at their time pressure curves you would have the answer.....
Very soft loads can have a curve shape like a long rolling hill. This is a condition where uniformity of your loads is harder to achieve....
A little bit of very fast powder in a very soft load can still show a little initial spike. I personally think this is better for shot to shot performance and accuracy.
When that spike heads almost vertical with a very fast powder for the case design one has to be careful though.... Small increases might... and can, shoot that spike right into the stratosphere!
Kinda like juggling with balls of nitroglycerin if you make too big of moves all at once!
Pete
Very light loads using this above 'line' may be your most uniform and accurate load!
Why???? I think if we could look at their time pressure curves you would have the answer.....
Very soft loads can have a curve shape like a long rolling hill. This is a condition where uniformity of your loads is harder to achieve....
A little bit of very fast powder in a very soft load can still show a little initial spike. I personally think this is better for shot to shot performance and accuracy.
When that spike heads almost vertical with a very fast powder for the case design one has to be careful though.... Small increases might... and can, shoot that spike right into the stratosphere!
Kinda like juggling with balls of nitroglycerin if you make too big of moves all at once!
Pete
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
There is no one at Lyman who remembers any of this, plus when sold out of the family in the early 1970's almost all the records were thrown away.
Thanks Pete! This agrees with my research, grooves began in the early 1950's and large alignment pins were a product of post-WWII production.
Eutectic
Active Member
Ben,
The following quote is from "catshooter"
"We know of course that the first exchangeable block moulds were un-vented. I have several that have interesting sprue plate screw locking screws. On a couple the screw is a headed slotted 10 x 36. The 36 pitch was used long ago, but was dropped when the 32 pitch was standardized."
I see your blocks have a 'headed' lock screw.... I thought it a replacement when I saw it.... BUT if it's a standard original screw (with 36 pitch) then your blocks sound very early.... (Late 20's- early 30's ???)
Pete
The following quote is from "catshooter"
"We know of course that the first exchangeable block moulds were un-vented. I have several that have interesting sprue plate screw locking screws. On a couple the screw is a headed slotted 10 x 36. The 36 pitch was used long ago, but was dropped when the 32 pitch was standardized."
I see your blocks have a 'headed' lock screw.... I thought it a replacement when I saw it.... BUT if it's a standard original screw (with 36 pitch) then your blocks sound very early.... (Late 20's- early 30's ???)
Pete
fiver
Well-Known Member
the fast powders burn,,, well, fast.
they just pop off and are done burning about the time the bullet moves ahead so their pressure curve is up and down. [think teepee shape]
the slower powders have that up and down time thing too, but the slower you go in the burn speed the longer they stay up there before dropping off.
[sometimes staying there longer than you have barrel time to take advantage of it all]
it's the up part we concern ourselves with the most since that is when the bullet is at it's most vulnerable point in the process.
they just pop off and are done burning about the time the bullet moves ahead so their pressure curve is up and down. [think teepee shape]
the slower powders have that up and down time thing too, but the slower you go in the burn speed the longer they stay up there before dropping off.
[sometimes staying there longer than you have barrel time to take advantage of it all]
it's the up part we concern ourselves with the most since that is when the bullet is at it's most vulnerable point in the process.
Fiver can it be compared to an automotive cam profile?Steep,sharp grinds lending themselves more twds narrow windows.Where more rounded lobes are more road race....broader power windows?
Not there's anything wrong with either....but the former is a little rougher on the rest of the system,once crossing certain levels?
Or,that's a dumb comparison and get my mind out of the gutter?
Not there's anything wrong with either....but the former is a little rougher on the rest of the system,once crossing certain levels?
Or,that's a dumb comparison and get my mind out of the gutter?
Eutectic
Active Member
Too much fast powder in a bottleneck might compare more like too much manifold boost to quick in a fuel dragster
Pete
fiver
Well-Known Member
the results would certainly be the same.
the messed up thing about powder is it has a pressure window it's happy in.
under that it's inefficient.
over that and it starts to consume itself even faster and faster and you make more gas volume than there is room to contain it.
the messed up thing about powder is it has a pressure window it's happy in.
under that it's inefficient.
over that and it starts to consume itself even faster and faster and you make more gas volume than there is room to contain it.
Brother_Love
Well-Known Member
I was able to get one of these Ideal molds today, although it was single cavity in the 160 gr variety.
You have made a great choice.
Brother_Love
Well-Known Member
Got it, just a s/c but even came with a box. When I first started casting s/c is all I had.
