Near total loss

[Rick]

I haven't yet heard what the cause of this fire was but until they have the chance to examine everything and figure it out we don't know. There have been times in the past where someone born with only a brain stem and nothing else thinks that waiting on Santa Anna conditions and lighting fires is just plain great humor. That is a possibility. The mountainous area where the range is is close to the heavily populated area of the San Fernando Valley, throughout the area are numerous illegals camped out, living in everything from tents, stolen RV trailers, cardboard boxes. They all use camp fires for cooking, heat etc. When a wind comes these fires spread fast. That is a possibility. Not uncommon for people that have tipped a few too many to drive off the side of the canyon roads, car accidents cause fires up there. That is a possibility. Lightning strikes also start many fires, can't blame people for that. It is possible under the right weather conditions to have lightning without rain storms. That is a possibility. A catalytic converter in a cars exhaust gets hot enough to start the dry brush on fire if parked on it. That is a possibility.

Bottom line is that there are many possible causes and as yet they haven't even ventured a guess that I've heard. I hope it wasn't arson because it just can't be healthy to hate someone that intensely.
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[Pistolero]

Rick, was any of the loss insured? Your comment about $150K in ammo stocks seems amazingly high, hope that was insured.

What a shame.

Bill

 

[fiver]

until the people got there it was a wasteland of desert.
they import their water through the van-nuy's canal system taking it from those that had it before.

those winds come up and move the fire along but it gets so intense it starts it's own winds sucking oxygen up and creating fire storms and tornado's of fire.
it's so intense it needs like a matchstick worth of fuel to create a fire 50' tall for 2 minutes.

 

[Rick]

ASR is insured, LASC has liability only.

$150,000 isn't high when you stop to consider that it's a public range sitting next to a metropolis of around 12 million and is one of the few outdoor public shooting ranges and by far the largest. Any firearm/caliber legal in the state is ok to shoot there and a fair bit of the ammo shot at the range is purchased at the range. That's kinda hard to comprehend for someone like those of us on this forum that shoot only our own ammo but most people don't load. If they can't buy it they don't shoot. No gun stores that I'm aware of left within the city limits of L.A., a few in places like Burbank. Then consider that the range stocks a pretty fair inventory for a wide range of rifle and handgun calibers and is open 7 days a week, 364 days a year, closed on Christmas only and $150,000 doesn't sound like a lot.
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[Rick]

until the people got there it was a wasteland of desert.
they import their water through the van-nuy's canal system taking it from those that had it before.

Not ASR ranges or LASC, strictly well water.

those winds come up and move the fire along but it gets so intense it starts it's own winds sucking oxygen up and creating fire storms and tornado's of fire. it's so intense it needs like a matchstick worth of fuel to create a fire 50' tall for 2 minutes.

These fires pretty much have to be seen to be believed. The intensity is amazing.
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[smokeywolf]

Sadly, we have also seen arsonists use Santa Anna winds of unusually high velocities, to satisfy their sick cravings.

 

[Rick]

For sale - Custom built XP-100 . . . Fluted barrel, Dewey trigger - Cheap!

​

Was safely stored in the stat house safe.
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[freebullet]

What a tragedy!

 

[Rick]

If you look to the left & behind that XP you'll see the safe that it was in. I think that's a rifle on top of the safe. Seems the locking mechanism on the door melted enough to fuse it together. Safe was expertly opened with a sawzall by one of LASC's gunsmith's.


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[Brad]

What a loss, that was a fine pistol.

Makes me cringe to think of the value of all that was lost. Then when you think of the time people will spend rebuilding instead of shooting. Once rebuilt I hope they find time to reopen the range in a big way.

 

[freebullet]

Seems like a hostile place rather than a world class range. Never thought I'd feel bad for Californians, but I do for these folks.

Maybe a moat could be incorporated in the rebuild.

Rammed earth reconstruction might be viable...?

I know how difficult it is to watch something you'e poured blood, sweat, tears, & money into be destroyed. It just plain sucks!

 

[Rick]

Maybe a moat could be incorporated in the rebuild.

A moat? The Mississippi River wouldn't stop 70 mph blowing coals and burning debris.

Rammed earth reconstruction might be viable...?

I don't know what rammed earth construction is but building underground would probably work.
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[Bret4207]

When a fire occurs that coincides with the Santa Anna's is when you hear about the fires in SoCal.

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Not fer nuthin' guy, but I hear about Calif fires every single year. I know it's big state, but thinking back, I'm surprised there' anything there left to burn.

 

[Bret4207]

A moat? The Mississippi River wouldn't stop 70 mph blowing coals and burning debris.



I don't know what rammed earth construction is but building underground would probably work.
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Rammed earth, basically like adobe without the baking. Might work, but it's going to depend on the specifics of the fire and material. Best guess, I'd say no. We have stone houses up here, built by British engineers left over after the War of 1812. They burn too.

 

[Rick]

There are fires out west most years, speaks to how fast that cr*p grows back. Not a bad thing though, the burn areas are subject to severe mud slides and erosion. Metal roofing is probably the best thing they can do rebuilding, I've no real say anymore, don't even live there now but I have already suggested metal. Will need to wait and see how the money shakes out, an asphalt roof is certainly better than no roof at all.

 

[Brad]

Like most clubs the limiting factor is $$$$

What could be and what is realistic are two different things.

 

[Ian]

Rick, purlin and R-panel roofing would be no more expensive than wood frame, decking, and asphalt shingles, in fact I'm certain it would be LESS expensive, they're just going to need someone who can do a little welding for a couple weekends to get the frame built. I understand that the original materials were donated and so that was what got used, but if new material (or even factory-second type material) is purchased, I too hope they don't have to buy something that equates to raw fuel.

Metal roofing makes very hot shade, it stops the light but just converts it all to heat and passes that heat straight through where it gets trapped on the underside in a sort of greenhouse effect. Asphalt buffers a lot of solar heat. Also, if you put metal roofing on a wood frame and fire blows across it, the whole mess burns anyway.

Part of the issue with attempting to make a fire-proof building on the cheap in that location is that even if you succeed, the contents may not survive, just like the contents of the office gun safe. The rammed earth idea might have some merit, something with enough thermal mass to insulate the contents of the building. Pre-engineered metal buildings are pretty fire-resistant IF, and this is a big IF, you can resist the temptation to plant shade trees all around it. They are also very affordable, quick to put up, and meet most building codes.

 

[Pistolero]

Got to be something that will stand the embers, seems like metal roof. Looks like that is the key. It would also seem that an
automated exterior spray/fogging system would help, although no clue about what is possible and legal and affordable in
the desert in the way of water storage. Seems like a water spray system with it's own power supply (engine driven
pump or genset to electric pump) to dampen everything for a half hour before it arrives would mitigate a lot.

Engineers think solutions, and this needs more than 5-10 minutes of thinking and discussing and budget "fer instances"
and knowledge of what is allowed by the very restrictive government in that location.

There have to be some folks who have studied how these fires actually start a structure burning. The first thing
would be some understanding. Seems like embers on a concrete wall would do nothing. Same for embers on a
window. Is the roof the only way the fire gets the building going? What about blowing up under the eaves? Can
embers find something via that route to ignite?

Good luck. Sad to see that pistol and the rifle behind it. Anyone ever try to reheat treat a fire damaged action?
Seems theoretically possible, but the surface finish damage and all may make it beyond any sort of economic repair, even if the metal was salvagable.

Was that your pistol, Rick?

Bill

 

[Pistolero]

This may provide some useful info. Specific to Colorado, but should apply to some of your stuff.

https://static.colostate.edu/client-files/csfs/pdfs/firewise-construction2012.pdf

 

[RBHarter]

About $25k will put up a clear span 40×50×16 steel master bldg . I bought one in October , it's set to deliver in AR next week .
They are California engineered , sustained 110 mph winds during a 6.8 earthquake with an 8' snow load .

I have $14k in it as a house shell plus whatever the concrete costs . 29 yd best guess about $33-3600 installed .

I'm hoping I never have to find out how it holds up to fire but with a back yard like the one I'm going have it could happen .

I've seen them spray stucco'd also . That and the 8" of urathane foam or an inch or 2 of R Max inside and out would make it easy to heat and cool and pretty fire proof .