Ok, What's wrong with Lyman moulds?

[Lost Dog]

Alright, you have to forgive me if this sounds stupid to some. I'm no expert. Been casting over half a century but I don't know a bunch really. So I've been reading where some / most of ya'll don't like Lyman moulds and buy custom moulds by some folks I've never even heard of. Now again, I don't claim to be any authority on anything, but what's so bad about Lyman? I only cast and load for 10 calibers and have about a dozen Lyman moulds to cover that list. Now there is a shoebox nearly full of rejected Lee moulds that I can't quite bring myself to throw in the trash. So I'd understand if ya'll said Lee stunk, but please enlighten me on what is so bad about Lyman moulds. Not wanting to start any arguments here, I'm simply curious.

 

[9.3X62AL]

My view--Lyman moulds as currently sold fail strikingly in the "quality received per dollar paid" equation. They are often undersized--often show poor finish--and often require the buyer to "finish building or refining them". Now, a whole lot of vendors in this hobby field sell wares that require "completion"--Lee being among them. With a Lee 2-cavity mould that goes for 30 bucks with handles, I can accept a need to refine and finish a tool. When a company charges 3X as much for a 2-banger mould block only slightly better in quality while absent of handles......well, the proliferation of semi-custom mould makers is self-explanatory. My experience has been that with Mountain Molds--NOE--and Accurate Molds that these companies offer high-quality tooling far better than Lyman-level quality at roughly Lyman's pricing level or a bit more. Add in that the semi-custom vendors offer designs, combinations, and cavity counts that Lyman does not.......well, Lyman gets left.

Older Lyman moulds--and some more recent--can be good tools. At $92 MSRP with CNC technology to assure good QC, there is no excuse for Lyman mould quality to be as uneven as it has been. I for one am WAY PAST TIRED of hearing about what vendors and manufacturers CAN'T do for the firearms hobbyist community. The success and product quality of the semi-custom mould makers absolutely gives the lie to the claims made by mainstream makers.

 

[RBHarter]

I have several Lyman moulds as well , they are older moulds and I generally got them at a good price ....... in fact most of them were for about 2x postage most of them are RB moulds . Here's what happened I found a vendor that had a suitable mould for what I was doing in a 2 cavity but I'm a shop around guy . So I looked at a NOE mould very similar to the Lyman I was looking at. For $10 more I owned and had in hand a 5 C NOE mould instead of a 2 C Lyman that was where I made up my mind . The Lyman moulds that I have in hand are good moulds and they are quality moulds ,but the newest of the bunch is probably 15 yrs old and the rest are 70s vintage. I've read in more than a couple of places that most of the new moulds are running small and that customer service leaves something to be desired. That is something you can't afford to do in such a small community because folks will flock to the guy that delivers what you used to for less money with a no hassle make it right policy.

Like others I don't mind a little figeting with a $20 2 C or a $50 6C but if I put out $60-80 or more for a 2C it better be making a usable bullet when I do my part ,my and your older moulds probably deliver on that based on reading about 5 % of the new stock delivered moulds don't.

 

[S Mac]

I have several Lyman moulds, most of them older. I like using them but I have a couple of duplicates, that is in # designation only, totally different size as cast. A crap shoot it seems.

 

[RicinYakima]

Some of it is modern times the Wal-Mart program: to sell to Midway, Graf and Mid-South, Lyman has to build to a price point that they can make money and everybody else down the line makes money also. When is the last time anyone ordered a mould from Lyman???? The custom maker gets to keep the full sales price. Since Lyman is still again a family owned closed business, only they know how their business is going.

 

[Rick]

Since Lyman is still again a family owned closed business, only they know how their business is going.

It's been my experience that they don't want to hear from their customers how it's going.

.

 

[yodogsandman]

I have a lot of older Lyman molds that I would never part with. I buy them mostly second hand, used. The newer ones all seem to cast too small for the common alloys that I use, mostly COWW's and a little tin. I think they should start re-cutting all their cherries to use COWW's for mold sizing. These newer Lyman molds have undersized noses even if the bands do come out the right size. Sure is easier to just size a boutique mold manufacturers bullet down to fit.

 

[Ben]

A fellow on another forum offered anyone an offer. " Send him a Lyman mold that wasn't casting properly, he would make it cast properly."

Said he'd NEVER seen a Lyman mould that didn't meet specs.

I think I should have sent him some of my DUD Lyman moulds. One of my 225415's cast at .222 X .225. I always wondered how he was going to get a decent bullet out of that one ? ?

 

[Lost Dog]

Ok. So the older Lyman, and I can only assume, the even older Ideal moulds are good. But the recently built Lyman moulds are junk. And Lyman Corp will not respond to customer service request. Does that about sum it up?

 

[462]

All of my Lyman moulds are of older vintage and cast at least to their nominal dimensions, but I'm not about to gamble that a new one will do the same.

I have Ideal moulds, too, and they are aptly named.

 

[Brad]

I look at it differently. It isn't what Lyman is doing wrong, it is what are the custom makers doing right?
I can get an NOE and feel pretty certain it will cast at spec or just a tad large. I can order from Accurate and KNOW it will be on spec. Every time.
If a mould from NOE has issues I feel quite certain that Al will make things right.
I can get exactly the bullet design I want from Accurate and have it in a couple weeks. I can have multiple bullets in a single mould.
Ever try to get Lyman to remove the check shank from a mould? Ever try to get them to change a design or make the cavities .002 larger to suit a specific rifle?
Are custom moulds a bit more expensive? Yes they are. They are a better value for the money because of the certainty of satisfaction. They will work as designed and cast what you want every time. The makers will answer your questions should a problem arise.

Why play roulette with your money when an obvious outcome is just a website away?

 

[Ben]

Why play roulette with your money when an obvious outcome is just a website away?

WOW ! !

That's pretty well sums it up.

Ben

 

[JWFilips]

I wouldn't part with any of my Ideal moulds But again I would not buy any Lyman's Why bother when NOE makes a better product for the same price ( & most times you can pick your cast size you want for the same price. I like fat moulds that can be sized down! Do not like skinny cast bullets. JMHO

 

[462]

Brad, I look at it this way: If Lyman were running a tight ship, the custom shops wouldn't be as popular as they are.

I know that a NOE mould will cast as designed and advertized, and will be of quality material and workmanship, making it an excellent value. I don't gamble, so I will continue to shop at Mr. Nelson's store.

 

[Brad]

Exactly. The custom shops exist largely to fill a void left by the collapse of the major players.
What saddens me is to think of the number of people who get into casting with Lyman moulds and get frustrated and quit.

 

[quicksylver]

Hi guys......have you noticed that the vendors on Flea- Bay are advertising most used Lyman molds as "Lyman/Ideal".

I would grab an Ideal mold in a heart beat, I have some late '60's and early '70's Lymans that are OK,
but the last two (two years ago) were so badly out of alignment that you could measure the differences with a measuring tape !

PS ...Strange thing about those molds is that they shot REALLY WELL, go figure!
And I was able to improve them considerably by pushing the alignment pins out more.
Still the best bang for the buck IMO are the custom jobs.

 

[KHornet]

The custom molds are a matter of supply and demand plain and simple. Have probably a dozen or more old Ideals, a large percentage of which Lyman no longer makes. They all cast very well. My later Lyman molds that I have kept cast to my satisfaction. However, I do check ebay for Ideal molds. Yesterday I cast 150 375248's in a single cav Ideal for my 375 H&H. Bought it used at a gunshop in Fairbanks if memory serves me right. It casts like a dream and produces a beautiful looking bullet. I will snap up old Ideals any time I get a chance if they are reasonable. That said, I am hooked on NOE's, and seems like I have more than my fair share of them. Al's prices are fair, his quality is excellent, his service is prompt! What more could I ask for.

 

[Lost Dog]

Thank you gentlemen for an interesting look into the world of moulds reviewing the good, the bad, and the ugly. I suppose its much like anything else in the world of products. Gibson guitars were the standard that all others were judged from. Today they're poorly fitted overpriced junk. The company is living only on brand name alone turning out junk for profit alone. Same thing with Lyman now I take it. Sad really as Lyman was the standard moulds were judged by. Oh well, the few older models and the few Ideal moulds I have serve me well. I can live with that.


And I surely would have thought that the cheap Lee moulds would be the ones that discourages new casting folks from the art. Oh well. ...

 

[Brad]

Lee has some good designs. Lee also recently changed the design of some of their moulds. This tells me Lee is listening to casters. The fact Lyman has not addressed some issues tells me they are deaf to the users of the products.

Lee is known for innovative ideas. This keeps them fresh. They make some wonky products by I have no doubt that they are always looking to the future.

 

[9.3X62AL]

I am sorry and saddened to see how Lyman moulds and Colt revolvers have declined from their former positions as world standards to their very diminished state we see today. As a nation, we have become a hive of bean-counters that manufacture less and less of what we need while good-paying jobs evaporate. Those two phenomena are joined at the hip. I think of Lyman and Colt as the "canaries in the coal mine" of America's economic health--and maybe the birds are on the cage floor in advanced decomposition, because things STINK. Accurate--NOE--and Mountain Molds provide hope that drive--energy--entrepreneurship--and a mindset that insists on good quality at a fair price still exist in our nation. H--L YES, I'll buy their products! Proud to say that I have done so.