Possibly the BEST plain base .30 cal. bullet out there

[Ben]

This is the load that you see in the group above fired at 50 yards.

This is the bullet I was shooting recently out of my Handi Rifle , 30-30 Win.
The Accurate ( 31 - 175 BP ) , it is a clone of the SAECO # 315.
A great plain base .30 cal. cast bullet.
I've shot the bullet in the 30-30, 308 Win, and the 30-06.
It is a nail driver in all three.

Today , I got outside and cast more.
An enjoyable casting session.

 

[Ian]

Good shooting, Ben. Those results would come at no surprise to Mr. Eagan, glad to see that one reproduced correctly.

 

[Ben]

Yes, Ian.......I'd like to think that Mr. Eagan is smiling right now.

Thanks,
Ben

 

[fiver]

I have always liked the 314 and 315 designs.
if you can get them in the barrel without too much difficulty you will be rewarded on the other end.

 

[Reed]

Wow. Nice group. I noticed the SAECO is not a bevel base. I'm struggling with a plain base that also is not beveled. On a different forum it was pointed out that mine are finning causing an accuracy problem, and that bevel bases are a way to take care of that problem. With accuracy like you have, yours must not have that problem. I'm trying to understand the conditions that might promote the problem. Mine have been shot at around 1150 fps or lower with a variety of powders from Bullseye up to Unique.

 

[Ben]

Finning can be caused by :

• Alloy that is too hot.
• Alloy too rich in Tin.
• Alloy under too much pressure
• Mold blocks not closing properly. ( look for lead particles on the mould faces )
• Vent lines cut too deep my the mold manufacturer.

 

[Ben]

BTW, I'm no fan of bevel based bullets.

My flat based bullets do just fine.

 

[Reed]

Ben, I might not be calling it the right thing. I was told there was evidence that fins were being created at the bullet's base when fired as the lands displaced material. Yup, I can see that your flat based bullets do fine -- or a notch better than fine.

 

[Ian]

Finning as in metal drug off behind the base band?

 

[Reed]

Yes.

 

[Ian]

Sorry, I was pretty sure Ben misunderstood you and I cross posted with your answer, that's what I thought. Finning isn't the only issue, the bases can cup quite a bit when crunching down five or more thousandths to groove diameter. Fins are inevitable and are no problem IF they are all equal. The trick is to get the base in the exact center of the throat as it's squeezing through or else you'll have a lot longer "skirt" on one side of the base than the other, and since this usually doesn't happen exactly the same way and in the same orientation every shot, dispersion occurs due to the yaw induced at crown exit from imperfect bases.

I almost never shoot a bullet that is larger at any point than the throat entrance, partly to minimize base imperfections (this happens with PC, gas check, and also jacketed bullets too). The challenge to accuracy is always is to get the bullet into the barrel straight, but if your bullet isn't huge in the case neck, you have to be very careful how you put things together so that the launch doesn't swing smaller bullet (say, .309") sideways in the chamber neck.

 

[Reed]

Good explanation. Thanks. Mine are short, 120 gr .30 caliber. I suppose is would be easier to get them a little sideways?

 

[fiver]

there is less support there.

 

[Brad]

A bevel base may reduce the tendency to have trailing edge finning but can also be harder to ensure good abuse fillout. I can easily detect a flat base with a rounded edge, how do you do that with a bevel base?

 

[Ian]

With a bullet that small it will rely entirely on the throat/ball seat part of the barrel to align the bullet. The case neck won't do much for you here, but will do a LOT against you. Using a bushing/body combo neck sizer that reduces the neck ID only the amount required for bullet tension, and adjusting the body sizing portion so that it just "kisses" the case body but still acts to keep the body and neck bushing in line with each other perfectly will go a long way toward making your brass snug in the chamber and case necks concentric with the bore. Using a standard die set with the button expander is a sure way to drag neck material off-center (due to case shoulders always having a thin side that yields first). A bushing neck die set up short of FL sizing will also leave an unsized portion at the base of the neck which will help "pilot" the case neck securely in the chamber.

The reasoning behind all this is to give a short bullet, or any cast bullet, for that matter, a fighting chance at entering the throat straight by being guided from behind. Actually, per first sentence of this post, that's not entirely an accurate way to put it....to say that what you are really trying to accomplish is only PREVENT the case neck from causing the bullet base to go sideways would be more true. Once pressure reaches a certain point the neck will blow out to fit the chamber neck no matter what, so really these sizing tricks are best with hard case necks and loads which don't exceed the neck's yield strength until the bullet is actually going into the throat. The alloy the bullet is made of and how large it is in relation to the throat entrance will determine how much engraving resistance it has and whether the bullet moves forward out of the neck before or after the neck has expanded. Pistol powders and too-hard/too large bullets tend to pop the case neck all the way against the chamber walls before the bullet even moves, leaving the bullet body to hang in space as it were, but sometimes you can build a very good 1200-1500 fps PB load based on a little bit slower powder and use a soft, ductile bullet which will pass through the throat It's all a matter of timing, and the timing is all about the dymanic balance between powder and alloy.

 

[fiver]

that's what I said..

 

[JWFilips]

I just had my first experiences with the SAECO 315 plain base in my 30-30 Savage 340 with receiver sights. quicksylver sent me some to test.
Not as tight as Ben's Accurate version but I will be boosting my charge up a bit in the future and may even go to the .311 size.
That style of bullet may definitely be in my future. Probably will go with Tom's remake
Jim

 

[Ian]

that's what I said..

If we could average your brevity and my pedantics we could write one helluva book.

I need to break down and install Java on this machine so I get the little notifications of people posting while my fingers are drolling a stream of consciousness 25 years long....

 

[Brad]

If we could average your brevity and my pedantics we could write one helluva book.

I need to break down and install Java on this machine so I get the little notifications of people posting while my fingers are drolling a stream of consciousness 25 years long....

Fiver isn't just brief, he speaks in broken sentences and phrases. We need a decoder ring!

 

[Reed]

Pistol powders and too-hard/too large bullets tend to pop the case neck all the way against the chamber walls before the bullet even moves, leaving the bullet body to hang in space as it were, but sometimes you can build a very good 1200-1500 fps PB load based on a little bit slower powder and use a soft, ductile bullet which will pass through the throat It's all a matter of timing, and the timing is all about the dymanic balance between powder and alloy.

I think this explains why my groups began closing up moving from 700X to Green Dot, then Unique. I plan to so see what Herco and 2400 will do. I was also heat treating my 50/50 PB/WW. Sounds like I need to stop that.
Thank you!