L Ross
Well-Known Member
Good grief, I'd rather see a thread on whether or not you can shoot a gas check style bullet without a gas check.
The Next Dark Age
- Thread starter david s
- Start date
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
And I just worry if I turned the washing machine on last night so I will have clean underwear tomorrow. 
Mitty38
Well-Known Member
Good theory, interesting read. But I still personally believe the existence of human consciousness began about 5000 years ago not 3000, by a singular event and not a generational learning process. At least as carried on in the caricature of the authors theories
That our learning process warps the human consciousness on both a personal and a societal level. That one is borne with a pure consciousness and is influenced by societal consciousness approximately puberty. Then self modifys it on a more personal level, after the move past pre adolescence.
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fiver
Well-Known Member
no way only 5000.
look we ain't any smarter than people were 20,000 30-40,000 years ago.
all we have done is further technology or improve on the last generations 'inventions'.
someone had to invent the wheel, then someone had to invent the road to make it more efficient so on and so on.
it just took someone focusing on making a fire easier than waiting for lightning to strike and the next step was taken.
look we ain't any smarter than people were 20,000 30-40,000 years ago.
all we have done is further technology or improve on the last generations 'inventions'.
someone had to invent the wheel, then someone had to invent the road to make it more efficient so on and so on.
it just took someone focusing on making a fire easier than waiting for lightning to strike and the next step was taken.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Agree with Fiver. One of the big differences is we store a lot more information in written form and it's readily available- if we want to look at it. That is a form of technology of course, as he pointed out.
Consciousness? The second someone started thinking beyond "now" they had consciousness, at least a form of it. When they started storing food or keeping the tool they made to use again, they were conscious that there was a "then" and a "now" and a "later". How fine a point do you want to put on it? The second someone way back grasped his own life and death, that was consciousness. Everything else is a degree of that. You can wrap it all up in technical language and try and separate the levels, but I don't think it's really that complex.
Consciousness? The second someone started thinking beyond "now" they had consciousness, at least a form of it. When they started storing food or keeping the tool they made to use again, they were conscious that there was a "then" and a "now" and a "later". How fine a point do you want to put on it? The second someone way back grasped his own life and death, that was consciousness. Everything else is a degree of that. You can wrap it all up in technical language and try and separate the levels, but I don't think it's really that complex.
Charles Graff
Moderator Emeritus
Folks use to worry about steam engine failure. Steam engines didn't fail, they were replaced and so will the technologies you ninnies' are worried about.
358156 hp
At large, whereabouts unknown.
For the 3000 year event, the actual event involved seems to imply Pharaonic as the first "civilization". I don't buy into that either, there is too much we don't know about ancient times. There have been too many indications of civilizations before the Pharoahs to ignore. That said, this was a looong time ago, and proving such claims will be difficult indeed. The Greeks and East Indians (India) lay a strong claim to ancient civilization, plus don't forget the unknown civilizations of South and Central America that predated the much later Mayans. Anthropologist use the words "believed", and "probably", way too much when discussing Central & South America.
The actual center of civilization for most of the world appears to revolve around agriculture. In my opinion, as agriculture became more widespread and advanced, communities developed in the area most desirable and productive for crops. As crops developed, so did knowledge, and with knowledge came research. This would have been followed with organization and social development. This could possibly be the most productive era of human development and evolution. This take us back to 5,000 to 10,000 years ago. Improved nutrition could also help explain the rise in intelligence of ancient man and evolution.
With Homo Sapiens being perhaps 200,000 years old, and neanderthals at 300,000+ years, it's apparent that we only know a tiny fraction of the history of mankind. We know Earth has been here in many different versions for almost 250 million years because we have unearthed plenty of evidence regarding dinosaurs and other early life.
fiver
Well-Known Member
the earth is only 4 billion years old, with another 4 to go in the Suns lifespan.
yeah it took a while for everything to work itself out and settle down, but even at 2 billion years, that's a lot of time for stuff to works it's way around and around so patterns can develop.
yeah it took a while for everything to work itself out and settle down, but even at 2 billion years, that's a lot of time for stuff to works it's way around and around so patterns can develop.
JonB
Halcyon member
I am guessing your definition of Early Man isn't the same as mine, but be that as it may, time is time. I can't see how time for some, goes faster than time for others.
RB's question, that I tried to give an opinion on, was about God's time. I believe the time when we are with God, is not time as we know it, and the Bible uses the "1000 years is a day" exaggeration to make that point.
Mitty38
Well-Known Member
Way I looked at, time before the creation of, or the earth taking form and developing cycles, if you will. It coming onto a separate night, that was dark and day, that was light. That time was described as days, being periods of time that things happened. In the Biblical account and a few other early writings.
You can't justify a 24 hr day, 365 day year as being a day, till day and night was created, or came into existence.
Even then who is to say that writings referring to the creation scedual, did not follow suits and refer to periods of time as days? After all, it was written for a simple people to understand and was passed on by oral tradition before that.
I can not go further into this without breaking the religious rules of the forum. Because then I would start discussing deep religious beliefs.
I am in no way here giving an opinion as to my religious beliefs, but just stating observation I have made between many beliefs and theories.
@Brad if I have gone to far please remove or edit
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Charles Graff
Moderator Emeritus
Food for thought: The Bibles uses two Greek words that are translated as "time" in English.
The first Greek word is "Chronos" which means chronological time, seconds, minutes, hours, days etc.
The other Greek word is "Kairos" , means the coming together of certain circumstances or events i.e. when all the guests were there it was time for the party to begin.
When discussing God's time, you need to understand the original word behind what you read in English.
The first Greek word is "Chronos" which means chronological time, seconds, minutes, hours, days etc.
The other Greek word is "Kairos" , means the coming together of certain circumstances or events i.e. when all the guests were there it was time for the party to begin.
When discussing God's time, you need to understand the original word behind what you read in English.
Mitty38
Well-Known Member
Genesis is not originally a Greek, but a Hebrew text.
Which uses the word "YOM" for day which can be interpreted as a day, a year , or any specific length of time. Or even just a season.
Many Hebrew scholars and linguists, refer to it's use in Genesis creation account as a season.
How ever the Greek translations of this when put in context can still mean season.
So its all a matter of subjection.
The priority of the writings, was not to give a detailed scientific account, to start with. But as an interpretation of history,concerning one people
So you have to take that into consideration, also,when comparing any Religious or tribal documents to science, or secular theories.
Which uses the word "YOM" for day which can be interpreted as a day, a year , or any specific length of time. Or even just a season.
Many Hebrew scholars and linguists, refer to it's use in Genesis creation account as a season.
How ever the Greek translations of this when put in context can still mean season.
So its all a matter of subjection.
The priority of the writings, was not to give a detailed scientific account, to start with. But as an interpretation of history,concerning one people
So you have to take that into consideration, also,when comparing any Religious or tribal documents to science, or secular theories.
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JWFilips
Well-Known Member
I was once privy To look through a Dark ages journal kept by monks....I could not touch it, mind you, but the custodian thumbed thru it with gloves, while I perused! The thing that amazed me the most, is that the margins of this ancient text were lavishly decorated with art and doodles, some very artistic! I happed to say to the curator..."the lack of female contact and sexual thoughts made for an abundant amount of artistic creativity!"
He smiled and said yes you are correct!
He smiled and said yes you are correct!
fiver
Well-Known Member
you gotta remember man got things wrong for a very,very long time.
the sun revolved around the earth.
the planets made loops in their orbit to back up that theory, just so the earth wasn't moving.
there was no wobble [seasons] either, the sun just shaded things differently in it's orbit.
if you went too far one way or the other in the ocean you got chomped by a giant dragon.
or even better you just fell off the end of the earth, they never explained where all the water was going [or coming from] since it had to be falling off too.
the sun revolved around the earth.
the planets made loops in their orbit to back up that theory, just so the earth wasn't moving.
there was no wobble [seasons] either, the sun just shaded things differently in it's orbit.
if you went too far one way or the other in the ocean you got chomped by a giant dragon.
or even better you just fell off the end of the earth, they never explained where all the water was going [or coming from] since it had to be falling off too.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Well, it ain't erzackly like man isn't getting things wrong to day too! Man's ego (the collective "man") says, "I got this whole thing figured out.", every time. Doesn't matter if it's the Earth being the center of the universe, the idea of "race", which brand of cigarette doctors really recommend for pregnant women or how electric vehicles are mans salvation- despite the fact there isn't power enough to run them- Man will get the wrong answer about 50% of the time. I'm often pretty surprised we've managed to survive this long.
Charles Graff
Moderator Emeritus
If one wishes to just deal with the Hebrew text of Genesis, then "day" will be "a non-specific period of time". It is also cool to remember that according to the Genesis creation story, that the sun was not created until the 4th day, so solar days become a problem if one takes day as a literal solar day. There are multiple creation stories in Genesis to boot.
It one takes the Genesis creation story as scientific fact there are multiple problems to deal with. That said, if one understands the same text to be a theological statement of the power and nature of God, all the problems go away and there is no conflict between science and Scripture.
It one takes the Genesis creation story as scientific fact there are multiple problems to deal with. That said, if one understands the same text to be a theological statement of the power and nature of God, all the problems go away and there is no conflict between science and Scripture.
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Charles Graff
Moderator Emeritus
Penalty...flag...foul, time to put myself in the penalty box for religious posts. A think not allowed on this board. Mia culpa...wait, isn't that religious also. Oh my what to do!