The Unwinnable Cartridge War

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Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
If you spend more than 2 minutes around gun people, and it may not take even that long, you will hear opinions on cartridges. The inevitable comparisons are entirely natural. Hang out with gear heads in garages, wood workers in shops and aviators in hangers and you’ll hear similar debates.

Some statements are on solid ground. Saying the 338 Lupua Magnum is a better long-distance cartridge than a 22 Short is probably not going to generate much debate. Other opinions tend to generate far more discussion.

Get between the deer hunting factions that support either the .30-06 or 270 Winchester and you’ll see fireworks. The same holds true for handgun cartridges and just about any other firearm related projectiles.

While things such as muzzle velocities, bullet weight, bullet diameter, muzzle energy and magazine capacity are easy to define and measure, other criteria are based largely on anecdotal evidence. Often this anecdotal evidence is very removed from the original source.

Rumor and lore play a disproportionate role in these opinions. Bias is unavoidable even when personal observations are in play due to the limited sample size and other variables. Even when the sample size is large, there can be other factors at play. W.D.M. “Karamojo” Bell shot over 800 elephants with the 7mm Mauser, but he was an excellent shot and he had precise knowledge of the anatomy of his prey.

The biggest factor is often lore. People hear anecdotal accounts of the performance of a cartridge, and form opinions. While the reporting may be very accurate, there are so many variables involved that conclusions cannot be trusted.

In the end, Cartridge wars are unwinnable wars. Now if you’ll excuse me, I need to go explain why 1990’s Snap-On combination wrenches are 437 times better than pre-1974 Craftsman combination wrenches………;)
 
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PGPKY2014

Active Member
My dad taught me that shot placement and bullet choice were more important than caliber choice, he did have his favorites.thes last few years Have been using straitwall cartridges and cast.
 
Uncle Grinch

Uncle Grinch

Active Member
Quite a few of favorite cartridges are based on emotional relevance, i.e, first rifle, or past experience. I’m a traditionalist and stay away from most all the newer cartridges. My favorites center around the old timers like 222 REM, 7x57 Mauser and 30-06. However I tend to stray towards different ones like 6mm REM, 6.5x55, 7.65x53.
 
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Thumbcocker

Active Member
It is hard to break with something that works for you. I know, intellectually, that a .357 handgun is capable of taking whitetail deer. However, for me personally, I break out in hives at the thought of hunting deer with a .357. To many deer in the freezer with various .44 magnums for me to change now.
 
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Jeff H

NW Ohio
MANY of the debates of this nature to which I've been exposed were comparing differences which were so minimal as to be easily overshadowed by the users' skill levels, whether a production gun or full custom is being used, even down to one lot of powder to the next.

@Thumbcocker makes a very good point, yet I've chosen the 357 as a (carbine cartridge) for various other reasons and I even like the 44s more. Doesn't make the 357 "better" and I know that I just have to account for the differences in actual use.

Completely on board with @Uncle Grinch regarding LIKING some of the milder mannered stuff more than stuff that will reach farther or hit harder - I just have to account for the differences in use.

@PGPKY2014 makes about the most valid point one can make regarding any of these debates.

A long time ago, it dawned on me that many of us rationalize our preferences by manufacturing facts as to why what we chose is objectively better than some other choice. When challenged with a statement regarding how inferior our choice may be in someone else's eyes, many tend to feel obliged to cough up proof to the contrary. I stopped doing that when I realized that it kept me from using what I WANTED to use and answer such challenges with "so, what"?

Don't get me wrong - I did the same thing for years. Took a long time to realize/admit that my choices weren't always based on objective fact regarding meaningful differences. I did finally realize that I didn't actually have to justify what I liked and wanted, and that the minor differences in most cases weren't even worth considering, especially when considering my personal skill level, the level of precision in my tooling and guns, how I wanted to use them, etc.
 
Brad

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
At 100 yards a deer is just as dead with a 30-30 as it is with a 300 mag.

My favorite is people glomming onto a hot new target cartridge and deciding it is the best thing ever for hunting as well. The target cartridge may give small groups at 600 yards but what does that really do for a guy who shoots deer at 200?

No different from fishing tackle. Doesn’t need to catch fish, just fishermen.
 
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popper

Well-Known Member
I know my choices are opinionated. I don't like bolt rifles or six-shooters, from experiences as a kid. I did not grow up hunting or shooting, didn't really start until well into my 60s. 336 in 30/30 was first. Kinda neat. Then 40sw, 9mm is OK. 308 ar10. They all fit into their purpose. Mostly 300BO now, tinker cartridge and shoots OK. Shoulder gets tired from the 308 loads. Are my choices the best? Well, they work for me and that is what I care about.
 
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Bisley

Active Member
Don't forget availability of ammunition. The classic rounds are usually recognized immediately, and stocked. And most of them are still cheaper than new rifles in whiz-bang chambering. But I still have a hard time wrapping my head around SG Ammo listing Privi Partizan .30-'06 Grand ammo for over $1.20 a round. Mus' be gettin' old...
 
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Hawk

Hawk

Well-Known Member
I started hunting with my Dad when I was 5 and he was 25 in 1956.
He always hunted with a 270 Win., the first rifle he gave me was a 270 and that's what I still deer hunt with today.
I guess I'm a sentimentalist.
I do have different guns for smaller and larger game and i do tinker with a wildcat, but that's just for fun.
 
smokeywolf

smokeywolf

Well-Known Member
Never felt the need to convince someone else that my choices are better for them than their choices. That goes for cartridges, whisky or women.

I have only one firearm that chambers a "modern" cartridge. Next to that, 348 Winchester is my next most modern cartridge.

Never been one to jump on the latest fad.
 
Gary

Gary

SE Kansas
I've been through the gauntlet and back; for me (and since shoulder recon.) I tend to favor the one's that don't beat the crap out of me. At 78 I'm still trying different cartridges. Say the 6.5CM loaded with 85 gr Sierra Varminter bullets; or the 6mm ARC in a chassis that makes the rifle weigh over 12#'s. Neither slam my shoullder with much more than my 5.56 does.
I primarily shoot at targets on my 100 yard range.
Did weld up a KYL's target and it's the most fun I've had with a .22LR in decades.
I sold all my 30-30's; 30-06; and others and concentrate on loading my cast in a 38-55; 44-40; 357; and 45ACP. I've even gotten back into loading 20; 16; and 12ga scatterguns.
Shot a mix of my 6ARC loads and 6.5CM loads yesterday and enjoyed the weather and the fun.
 
Glaciers

Glaciers

Alaska Land of the Midnight Sun
Well in the early 60’s my BIL gave me his sporterized Enfield. As a 12 year old I was in heaven. My brother in law had discovered the new 300 Winchester mag. This is when we all had migrated to Colorado. I enjoyed that 30-06, to me it was the cartridge. The sporterized Enfield was a beautiful rifle with fine wood scoped with a 3 power Weaver if I remember correctly. Anyway it was big, heavy, hard to work the bolt as it cocked on closing.
My older brother shot a Savage 99 in 300 Savage and my Father not one to be left behind in the “New” cartridge war went with the 7mm mag in a Remington 700.
BIL had joined us from Howard Lake Minnesota, and we had moved out from Decatur Illinois. Had to have the new cartridges that would reach out there for those Mulies And Antelope.
I was happy with the 30-06 even though most around me would sing the praises of the Magnums and how much better then the lowly 30-06. Only problem with there argument was I could shoot that Enfield lights out. We practice out in the open country at least twice a month, so I was pretty good.
But after years of listening to the Magnum hype, I was thinking that maybe there was something to the Magnum stuff. But I loved the old “06” so I started doing some research. First off I did not like the recoil of the 300 mag, and couldn't go with the 7mm, or the 270 which my brother had graduated to.
We used to shoot out in the open country of Colorado and later Utah commonly shooting at 300 yards at one pound DuPont powder cans. When we ran out of cans or pieces of cans we busted rocks. I could hold my own with the old 30-06 against the flatter shooting guns of my family, so I was happy.
But my BIL kept after me suggesting I needed a 300 mag. About this time we had been in California for a while and I had a friend that owned a gun store on South Main in Santa Ana. So my research indicated that the 300 did in fact shoot flatter then the 06, but not that much. We were talking about a hunt to Alaska for big bears so Stanley the owner at the gun shop suggested the 338 mag as a good choice. The trip would included myself, my father, and brother who had graduated to a 300 mag after pressure from BIL Mike, so Joe was set. We were going to include a friend who didn’t own any firearms. Anyway Stanley happened to have 3 - 338 mag Sako Finbears made pre Garcia in stock. Stan got a deal on the rifles as the distributor had them on special. Well Stan had them in stock and had finally figured out that the 338 mag wasn’t that popular in Southern California. I bought all 3 and gifted 2 to my Father and he in turn gifted one to Ruben a family friend and business partner.
I loved the 338 mag. Much more pleasant to shoot the the 300’s. Once you got into the Speer 275’s that St. Elmer liked they would start to get your attention. Still more of a push then the snap of the 300’s.
The Alaska trip never happened. Instead I just moved to Alaska in 74. I was given the other 2 Sako 338’s a couple years later. I learned that there wasn’t much difference in point blank range when comparing apples to apples as close as you could, so the 30-06 was and remains my go to rifle. I have other choices from 458 on down, but all the rest are more specialized firearms.
Well times change. I got interested in Winchester levers and single shots anyway which was a wonderful distraction.
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