The Unwinnable Cartridge War
- Thread starter Petrol & Powder
- Start date
Up here in maine,the 270 with 130 sierra fb,,has killed many tons of deer!!along with 30-30,and 3006,,old stuff dont stop working,,keep on keepin on.
RBHarter
West Central AR
If you jam the 6.5 CM up into a 6.5-50SR die you get a perfect 6.5 Arisaka ready to fire form after you knock the bulge off the top of the extractor groove . Don't even have to trim them ..... I guess that makes it a hot loaded 1891 designed cartridge ...... Not knocking the Swede .....
My comment was speculative - hypothetical.
I don't even know if they even still make it.
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fiver
Well-Known Member
they must still make the gun at least, i seen a guy looking for brass the other day.
told him he shoulda bought one when they were giving away 500 rds. with the gun.
i'm too practical to get all worked up about cartridges too much anymore.
i think some of that stems from being able to read a ballistics chart, and partly from being able to read max pressures on the Saami sight.
besides i can put less powder in the case and make the bullet work better, plus it'll have less recoil, and i'm highly capable of resisting the temptation to shoot stuff at 800yds across two canyons.
told him he shoulda bought one when they were giving away 500 rds. with the gun.
i'm too practical to get all worked up about cartridges too much anymore.
i think some of that stems from being able to read a ballistics chart, and partly from being able to read max pressures on the Saami sight.
besides i can put less powder in the case and make the bullet work better, plus it'll have less recoil, and i'm highly capable of resisting the temptation to shoot stuff at 800yds across two canyons.
L Ross
Well-Known Member
Darn Brad, that's a pretty fair comparison. Fishermen covers a pretty broad spectrum, as does hunters and shooters.
When Sue and I Muskie fished I build all of our rods from components that fulfilled our needs. Once we quit the Muskie Madness and reverted to fishing for panfish for the table I would buy rods and reels from the Bargain Cave and did just fine. Then I started dabbling in fishing for walleyes and made the mistake of buying a semi decent St. Croix spinning rod. I was amazed at the performance. Since then I have bought a couple more low mid grade to mid grade rods, paired them with modern reels and light braided line and discovered a world of sensitivity I never really felt before. And.....I catch more fish because of it. Now I recently upgraded my panfish rod and feel it is well worth it. I'm talking $80 to $150 dollar rods and matching reels.
I was talking to a really good fishing guide the other day and he typically uses $150 rods and provides the same to his guide clients. He recently guided some people filming a fishing show. I saw the tricked out Ford Expedition with all the graphics in the boat landing parking lot. Then on the water I saw this enormous tricked out 21 ft. glass walleye boat with a 300 hp Mercury V-8, a 15 h.p. kicker and all of the latest bells and whistles. Easily 150K, easy. The owners of the rig loaned the guide a St. Croix Legend Extreme rod to try. He was very favorably impressed. More sensitivity, lighter, faster, more powerful, capable of leaping a small building in a single bound and all that. Since I know the guide is good enough to discern such nuances I looked the rod up. I almost needed a defibrillator.
Missionary
Well-Known Member
Well I grew up in SW Michigan throwing rocks and spears... And pulling recurve bows. There ain't no better than a Bear Recurve.
I would need to live another life time somewhere else to shoot as many con crunchers as I have stuck and harvested with a 45-55# Bear Recurve.
I would need to live another life time somewhere else to shoot as many con crunchers as I have stuck and harvested with a 45-55# Bear Recurve.
Uncle Grinch
Active Member
6.5 Creedmoor… ?? Oh, I thought you said 6.5 Sweedmoor!
Josh
Well-Known Member
I rarely get into gun debates, but I will always share what I'm hunting with if asked. If I had to pick 1 cartridge for life in every category, I could easily do it. That said, I do like variety. I can easily say I hate the 30-06, yet I love the 7.65x53, 7.7 Jap, 8x57 and 7.62x54R.
Anyone's shooting needs can be filled completely with just a few cartridges. Everything else is opinion and personal preference.
If I had to choose, it would be simple:
9x19
41 mag
6mm ARC
7mm PRC
350 Rem Mag
These when in the correct rifle, pistol or handgun will take everything from mice to elephant. Even if they're not "legal" for the latter.
Anyone's shooting needs can be filled completely with just a few cartridges. Everything else is opinion and personal preference.
If I had to choose, it would be simple:
9x19
41 mag
6mm ARC
7mm PRC
350 Rem Mag
These when in the correct rifle, pistol or handgun will take everything from mice to elephant. Even if they're not "legal" for the latter.
Tom
Well-Known Member
You beat me to it. I love my 6.5 Swedemore. Gentle recoil, and for some strange reason, seems to work when the heart/lungs/liver are hit.
CWLONGSHOT
Well-Known Member
THAT, right there!
Most new cartridges may well be "better," but by how much and how many of us would notice, let alone benefit from the difference? It's much like what wildcatters did for ages - squeezing just a teensy bit more out of something.
For those new ones which are pretty lame compared to the hottest, flattest, fastest so many loved so much for so long, stuffing whatever can be stuffed into an AR has produced some interesting and useful non-magnumish things. I nearly dedicated a CZ 527 to the 350 Legume. Basically a 357 Max in an appropriately-sized bolt-action - with some serious class. I couldn't bring myself to pervert my darling little 222R though. Many of the AR spawn are appropriate for Contenders as well.
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JonB
Halcyon member
Glaciers
Alaska Land of the Midnight Sun
Pretty much true, but I don’t know where you live or grew up, but that will have a big influence on what you shoot. Then add in cost and things like recoil tolerance.
I grew up in the western states where a 100 yard shot was considered in the camp. Most shots were 100 to 400 yards for mulies or Antelope, so going with that I would stay with my old 30-06.
Later when I moved on to the colder country of Alaska I added to the 30-06 mainstay a 338 mag and a 458 mag. Being a firearms enthusiast of course I have many more but Josh you’re talking about paring down to as close to the one man one rifle idea. So for this country I would have to stay with the 30-06 as a primary, but there’s some nasty stuff in other parts of the state.
So I’ve moved on or a better description is I’ve refined my choices. So following your choosing of a simple list my choices would have to be:
30-06
35 Whelen
45-70
458x2
For handguns
357/38
44 mag
It gives me the shivers just thinking about pairing down that far. Plus it must be said that the 22LR in long and short guns is always on that list it is just a given.
For this country if I had to really pare it down I would go with the 35 Whelen, 44 mag and 22LR
That speaks of desperation. A dark day.
So my point if there is one is where I live is dictating My choices. If I lived in where little deer were having to be chased away from your garden, bird feeders I would be choosing differently.
357 mag
30-30
32 spl
35 rem
On the big gun side
348
44 mag
45-70
But I’ve never lived in white tail county.
Of course these choices would all be lever guns. When a critter basically walks up and nibbles at your freezer, well you just don’t need most bottle neck cartridges and the scopes that go with them.
Unless, unless there’s the desire …
Josh
Well-Known Member
My point was, rather or not we think we need cartridge "X", most can be done with a very simple set of cartridges. Would I feel comfortable shooting a coastal brown with a 7mm PRC? Yes. But, only with the proper bullet.
None of my cartridges are "stopping" cartridges. That doesn't start until 40 cal and 4,000 ft/lb energy IMO.
More often than not, we get wrapped up into what we think is best, without examining why. My list was comfortably capable of every class of game. My list also doesn't take into account my love of cast bullets.
Defense 9x19
Revolver hunting 41 mag
Mule deer and under 6mm ARC
Elk/Caribou 7mm PRC
Dangerous Biting animals 350 Rem Mag (or 358 WSM)
These will work every time, but some people want different or more. The idea here is, debates are irrelevant, out to 300 yds MOST ANY 6mm + bottleneck cartridge is flat enough to make repeatable humane hits on game. So, pick what you want, ignore everyone else and enjoy shooting and hunting how you want.
Glaciers
Alaska Land of the Midnight Sun
Yeah besides all the personal biases people have in gun hunting, personal defense which is there without question. I just wanted to touch on the regional differences which will influence these choices.
My mileage will vary from most folks. I’m in the camp of big, heavy, flat nose at moderate velocity.
My mileage will vary from most folks. I’m in the camp of big, heavy, flat nose at moderate velocity.
Do they call it that, because the bullet is the size of a bean?
Don't rightly know, but just can't bring myself to call something so new "Legend."
Still struggling with "Buck Hammer." If I ever have one, I will have the barrel stamped with a European designation to avoid having to say "Buck Hammer."
Remember kids who's parents had their heads where the sun don't shine when they picked their poor kid's name? If your last name is Buttz, DON'T name your kid HARRY! I can just imagine where imaginative third-grade boys will go with "Buck Hammer." Come to think of it, third-grade-mentality seems to fit some of the arguments and assertions I've heard regarding the latest whiz-bang cartridge.
Maybe I'll get a 360 Buck Hammer and have "35 Whiz-Bang" engraved on the barrel.
Seriously. That would be kinda cool.
smokeywolf
Well-Known Member
The very minimal likelihood of ever again having to make a shot beyond 80 yards and myself having the physical constitution of an 80+ year old, I'm leaning toward cartridges and calibers that translate into a bit less punishment at the buttplate.
The above, combined with my penchant for old Winchesters has me falling more deeply in love with 45-60 and 40-65 cartridges. The Winchester Centennial rifle (the 45-60) with single set trigger and tang-sight puts a stupid big grin on my face.
The above, combined with my penchant for old Winchesters has me falling more deeply in love with 45-60 and 40-65 cartridges. The Winchester Centennial rifle (the 45-60) with single set trigger and tang-sight puts a stupid big grin on my face.