The Unwinnable Cartridge War

richhodg66

Well-Known Member
Though I am something of a fan of the 6.5 Creedmoor, I was, of course, being sarcastic. It is a good little round for a lot of reasons and might just be the perfect white tail cartridge (with jacketed bullet, anyway). I like the platform mine is in, Ruger American Predator. I just knew it would stir the pot in this crowd.
 

Gary

SE Kansas
Though I am something of a fan of the 6.5 Creedmoor, I was, of course, being sarcastic. It is a good little round for a lot of reasons and might just be the perfect white tail cartridge (with jacketed bullet, anyway). I like the platform mine is in, Ruger American Predator. I just knew it would stir the pot in this crowd.
Mines in a RPR.
 

RBHarter

West Central AR
06'/270 no problem. If the 7×57 is great for mice to elephant then the 280 has got to be even better! ;) :)

Most of the cartridge wars stem from game laws we grow up with .

Maine specialty calls the 25 ACP as the minimum deer cartridge.
Alabama has a minimum big weapon listed as a hafted spear.
Nevada has a convoluted paragraph that when heavily researched with calculators and tables allows elk to be taken, circa 2000 with a top 55 gr 223 load but a Rem 300 gr Trapdoor 45-70 thumb ruled won't make it in an 1895GG with ported barrel . In hand guns the 256 makes the cut but the 327 comes up short .

Until very recently the whole 30-30 clan was just marginal in my mind . I've also accepted that unlike hunting the top of the tree line and above , 200 yd is an outside maximum of I happen to get in a pole line cut not a nominal standard zero .
 

Jeff H

NW Ohio
Though I am something of a fan of the 6.5 Creedmoor, I was, of course, being sarcastic. It is a good little round for a lot of reasons and might just be the perfect white tail cartridge (with jacketed bullet, anyway). I like the platform mine is in, Ruger American Predator. I just knew it would stir the pot in this crowd.

Nothing wrong with the cartridge, as had been proven over and over for more than a hundred years.

"Same Great Product - All New Packaging!"

The hype though, and the way the Kool-Aide crowd sucks it up...:headscratch:

In real terms though, mere musing takes a back seat to real losses - like readily available brass for millions of existing guns and discontinued, long, heavy, cheap cup-n-core bullets, displaced artificially, by expensive, lighter (hey, where'd all that legendary sectional density go?) boutique bullets, not by actual demand, but by halting production on the existing stuff to make room on the shelves for the new stuff. The horse gets ahead of the cart and the old stuff doesn't go away not because the new stuff is found to be so much better - it goes away because it's TAKEN away. Old Adam Smith's "Invisible Hand" has been hand-cuffed to a bike rack somewhere.

Some fashion genius announces that "next year, everyone will be wearing jeans with more holes than fabric!"

Then, it HAPPENS and people wonder HOW he KNEW THAT!!

Self-fulfilling prophecy.

Not really much wrong with most of the "new" cartridges I've seen in my lifetime, but very, very few are so much better than what we already had. If they ARE that much better, very very few people could actually see the difference with mediocre shooting from production guns.


It's not the cartridges which are in question, rather the hype around tiny advances which may or may not be worth making.
 

CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
I haven't made the pilgrimage to the Land Of Creedmoor myself. A Ruger 77R in 6.5 x 55 handles the 26 caliber venue very well.

The 338 Win Mag is the only belted magnum round I have ever owned, and it is a fine caliber. It is very darn accurate with Nosler 250 grain Partitions, too. It did all right with castings--a 200 grain RCBS mould run at 1700-1800 FPS stayed inside 2" at 100 yards without much fuss and bother. This occurred toward the end of my time with the caliber just before we left Ridgecrest in Aug. 2014.
 

Glaciers

Alaska Land of the Midnight Sun
Lots of old venerable cartridges can compete with the newer cartridges simply by up grading the optics.
Older firearms generally have optics from that time period.
Newer cartridges and firearms since they are new already have newer optics.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
How many of these new cartridges are designed to mimic an older cartridge ballistics but fit in a different platform? Maybe a short, fat cartridge to fit in an AR type rifle but with the capabilities of a longer, skinnier cartridge that fits a bolt action.

Not better, just fit to a very specific set of criteria
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
A long time ago, it dawned on me that many of us rationalize our preferences by manufacturing facts as to why what we chose is objectively better than some other choice. When challenged with a statement regarding how inferior our choice may be in someone else's eyes, many tend to feel obliged to cough up proof to the contrary. I stopped doing that when I realized that it kept me from using what I WANTED to use and answer such challenges with "so, what"?

Don't get me wrong - I did the same thing for years. Took a long time to realize/admit that my choices weren't always based on objective fact regarding meaningful differences. I did finally realize that I didn't actually have to justify what I liked and wanted, and that the minor differences in most cases weren't even worth considering, especially when considering my personal skill level, the level of precision in my tooling and guns, how I wanted to use them, etc.
/\ So very true /\

There is an incredible force within people to justify decisions. It is particularly strong after a purchase.
If you can step back and examine your own decisions based on facts and not emotion, you have mastered a part of your mind that most people cannot master.
 

richhodg66

Well-Known Member
It has been explained to me what makes the 6.5 Creedmoor better than existing cartridges and magazine length of platforms designed around the .308 Winchester had a lot to do with it. Short, but maintains a decent length neck for utilizing the long, heavy bullets in existing magazines.
 

CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
Im on a online uTube chat every Friday nite.

EVERYWEEK we have to hear how the 270 is superior to any other caliber made or designed since time began...

Last nite I asked; Why, if its so good, do people in lust with the cartridge, feel the need to remind the rest of us every time we talk? Humm...

Reminds me of 9mm fans claiming it has this over the 40 and that better then the 45. But never do you hear a 40 or 45 fan feel the need to compare itself to anything else...

:cool: :cool: :p
 
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Jeff H

NW Ohio
It has been explained to me what makes the 6.5 Creedmoor better than existing cartridges and magazine length of platforms designed around the .308 Winchester had a lot to do with it. Short, but maintains a decent length neck for utilizing the long, heavy bullets in existing magazines.

I think you're right, but I don't really see them USING long heavy bullets though.

"Long and heavy" in the 6.5 to ME is 160 grains - the weight that'll get you into the .3 SDs. .28-something SD is not uncommon in many other calibers. Anyone I've talked to is shooting 120-somethings, which have a lower SD than a 120 grain .257" bullet, yet they yammer on about the great SDs of the 6.5.
 

JonB

Halcyon member
41 Mag is the BE ALL, END ALL of calibers.
It can do anything that needs to be done (in Minnesota).
.
Oh, there maybe one exception. When I was young and lived with my parents in a Lake home, one Spring during the time when Ice fishing shacks needed to be removed from the Lake, One was froze in so good, that the owner decided to shoot it out. He used a 30-06, I've never seen ice fly so far. I am pretty sure a 41 Mag couldn't do that. BTW, this smallish lake (about 1 mile across) is within the city limits, with cabins and homes all around it. The Sheriff was out there lickity split.