The Unwinnable Cartridge War
- Thread starter Petrol & Powder
- Start date
Why not? I know of a .505 Gibbs stamped ".505 Loudenboomer-Kickenharder". . . .
CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
This cartridge intrigues me--but not as a self-defense round. It's sporting potential for varmints and small game is much like that of the 32 H&R Magnum--a 100 grain bullet at a claimed 1250 FPS. I'll bet the report is eardrum-drilling, as it runs at 50 Kpsi.
Story time.......for about 30 years I've owned a MAS Model 1935 pistol, which was a French service sidearm from that year into the 1960s. This cartridge wasn't some new thing--not at all, it was the round developed for use by the Pederson device, a 7.65 x 20 autopistol-like cartridge with 80 grain bullet that ran about 1300 FPS when fired in a Pederson device in a Springfield bolter in 30-06. The idea was that at some point our doughboys would rise from the trenches and with the semi-auto fire enabled by these gizzies the Huns would be routed by waves of massed semi-auto fire. This didn't happen, as it turns out. Armistice was declared, and the devices missed their chance.
The French were impressed by this cartridge, and chambered both the 1935 pistol and a 1938 SMG for the little round. In the pistol its 77 grain mil-spec load gets about 1150 FPS; I've run 84 grain #313249 to about 1100 FPS and it knocks jackrabbits on their natural aspirations pretty well. It's a cool little pistol, resembling a SIG P-210 that got shrunk in the wash. It is sort of a 32 Super Auto. Loud little beast, too.
The 7.65 x 20 Longue was my first thought when the '30 Super Carry' was rolled out. It is dimensionally VERY SIMILAR--its rimless base and rim are about 006" larger than the 7.65 x 20 case's--the case length is one mm longer--and the same length as the 30 Luger, but a straight-wall design. At 50 Kpsi, its velocity yield is about that of the 30 Luger with similar bullet weights (the 30 Luger runs in the 35 Kpsi ballpark). There is nothing new here, folks--just century-old-plus concepts re-packaged in a 2022 marketing venture to exploit the CCW surge brought on by our catch & release criminal justice system.
I've endured the Federal Cartridge marketing spiels until my eyes glaze over. Mostly they tout the pistols' incrementally-higher mag capacity compared to the same S&W carry pistols meant for 9mm, and also praise the superior terminal performance to that of the 380 ACP and that same performance as being like that of the 9 x 19. Yadda yadda yadda.
These same ammo makers haven't done a decent job of producing ammo in calibers that have been around and commonly available for 120 years--and NOW you want to roll out this uber-new mid-caliber felon repellent/dissuader? Quit it.
If this was marketed as a hunting/sporting pistol (or rifle) with decent sights and good trigger, I would consider parting with some folding money. A CZ-527 with a 5/10 round mag would make a great bunny-to-coyote rifle, and in a bolter the horsepower could be down-loaded to be subsonic and suppressor-friendly.
This concept as a self-defense tool is sub-marginal when psychopaths and/or drug-fueled goblins are your most likely adversaries. I like the 1250 FPS part of the equation well enough--it's the diameter and weight variable that give me pause. In my view, you only start getting serious at this speed once past .35" and 24% heavier. Of course, my preference is 80% heavier at 950 FPS.
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
/\ totally agree /\
On a slightly related note, I recently found a good deal on some used 32 ACP brass and purchased that to supplement my supply.
While I was inspecting and sorting that brass, I found several 30 Super Carry casings mixed in with the batch. The diameter of those casings is very close to that of 32 ACP and therefore any separation via sifting is problematic. But this did give me the chance to examine some 30 Super Carry casings. I agree with Al, it appears to be a modern reincarnation of the French 7.65 x 20 Longue.
There is seldom anything really new under the sun.
Michael
Active Member. Uh/What
A good friend of mine texted me the other day about the 28 Nosler, his teenage son has decided that his 6.5CM is on the anemic side for elk (fancy hat) and has decided that the 28 is the end all of hunting rounds. About a month ago I was chatting with his son, about barrel life and considering that he likes to shoot, a lot, and living on a ranch covering a deeded 2 sections their shooting in on the front porch. Anyway, in addition to the basic ammo/component cost, considering barrel life is likely less than 1K rounds, and factoring in replacement cost, each pull of the trigger is an additional .75 cents a pop on a good day.
Aside from all of pragmatic reasons of why or why not, we each like what we like for our own individual reasons and if for no other reason, what brings us joy and contentment.
Aside from all of pragmatic reasons of why or why not, we each like what we like for our own individual reasons and if for no other reason, what brings us joy and contentment.
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I've had the same thought, but I haven't seen it in a decent looking pistol. They were supposedly going to chamber some 1911's in 30 Super Carry, but they didn't show up around here. I would imagine just the thought of a 1911 in 30 Super Carry gives CWLONGSHOT the cold sweats. Locally there was ammo on the shelves but not many guns.