What Are Acceptable Powders for Plain Base Bullets?

[quicksylver]

I do not know if you have been following Ben's discussion on plain base bullets,
but the statement "any quick pistol powder will work" was made.
I paraphrased a little.
But are there any powders that maybe problematic?
I am thinking 700x, 231, 296 may have issues.
Most other SHOT GUN powders seem likely to work.
We are talking loads in the 30-06 capacity of say 5-8 grs.
OH and using LP primers.

 

[Ian]

Been following for years. MEDIUM pistol powders, like Red Dot down through Unique or even Steel with the exception of Power Pistol, Universal through HS-6, 800X, AA#5, etc. PB, International, and Steel are some often overlooked propellants for mousphart loads extraordinaire. Clays, Titegroup, 231, not great because they're dense, heavily deterred with graphite (for flash suppression) and don't have the bulk or burn consistency in large cases that some of Alliant's offerings do.

 

[quicksylver]

Ian.......Thank you.
I have used PB for years with great success and because it was readily available.
Not so much now.
Looking over the reloading manuals it seems like HS-6 would be a good choice,
I like Universal Clay over Unigue because it has none of the problems that Unique has,
it is not position sensitive nor does it seem to be affected by temperature and tolerates different primers well.
Thanks again and BTW my concern with the likes of 231 and 296 was there spikes in pressure when not using full case loads.
Don't know about 700X

 

[Ben]

I'd rule out 296 and Blue Dot in the 5-8 gr. range.

I've never had any luck with Clays or Titegroup either.

Ben

 

[quicksylver]

Hey Ben... Thanks.
I would have thought that Titegroup would have been good, but I guess you can never tell.

 

[JWFilips]

My standbys for all my rifles shooting light cast loads have been Bullseye, Unique and 2400. All have proved very accurate in certain loadings. Also because these are what I have in stock over these "lean years" of hand loading!
After seeing many of Dan's targets shot with Universal Clays I will be adding that one to my line up and will be testing soon. I have 3 lbs of that squirreled away. Recently I was able to purchase some new Red Dot to supplement my last old pound of Hercules brand ( from my shotgun loading days) Dan also showed some nice targets with that so I added that one. This has been my most recent experimental powder with my 8x57.
Ben has hinted to American Select but I have not seen any at my LGS. I have the Winchester fast powders but I hesitate in those big cartridges so they will stay on my shelf.
While I haven't tried any Plain base loads with it & it isn't a pistol powder, Reloader 7 has proven good shooting for me in 223 243 & 30 cal (medium loads). That is one I will always grab if I see it.

 

[quicksylver]

JW ...I will tell you right now that R7 turned my 1894 (1917) Winchester ,full octagon barrel into a bench rest rifle.
Last time I shot it was to check a load I was using, I shot 3 consecutive, 3shot groups, one above the other, prone @ 100 yds., all measuring 3/8"
during a warm up round just before a local NRA military match.
Supprised me as much as the other guys.
Can't quite remember the load ,but it was R7 and the original 407 .
Original tang sight, post front.
Glory days!

Say that gets me to thinking, that was a 1/12 twist.

 

[quicksylver]

JW I will post some of the groups shot with my 03a3 and Universal.
Please try 12.7grs of RD with your GC bullets in 30 cal. (30-06)

 

[JWFilips]

Dan,
Wish I had an 06. My old good shooting Battle rifle is my GEW98 8 mm however I have recently shot 175 gr gas checked boolits with 12-13-14 gr red dot early on in my RD tests I will try to pull my targets.
What I do know is it shot very accurately but surprised the heck out of me …from first let off of the 12 gr load I said to myself this is a high pressure load ( not what I imaged the C.E.Harris' universal 13 grain red dot load would be like) Now granted..I shoot fat boolits and they are up in the throat when I start my testing but I thought 12 gr wasn't a bad starting point. By the 13 gr loadings I kept watching my primers. They were getting flatter then I have ever seen with a cast bullet load. I only had 5 round of the 14 gr load made up which was good because I sure didn't want to go that high again.
Right then and there I thought man, that old burn rate datas on line are wrong then I ran into the 2014-2015 version of the Hodgen burn rate chate ….then it made since the new allient Red Dot is way hotter then the Hurcules version!
They is now way it is close to Unique ( or Universal Clays for that matter) Then later testing against my light bullseye loadings proved the new Red Dot was more potent then even Bullseye.
Forget all the charts…. Experience has thought me more! All that being said I will continue to test my loads with the New Red Dot ( just start far lower every time) At this point it has shot the tighter groups ever for me in my 8 mm
Jim

 

[smokeywolf]

Living in Kali, I'm careful not to have or store much in the way of propellants. Because of those limitations, I've stuck with the same 3 that JW mentions in his first sentence in post #6. I'm anxious to try RL 7, but that must wait. I was at one time thinking of trying Titegroup, but read that the gases it yields are quite a bit hotter than those of other powders of similar burn rates.

quicksylver, 3/8" @ 100 yards? 3 times in a row? With optics that is envious, with iron sights it's like bowling a perfect game.

 

[quicksylver]

OK.....I'll accept that my mind is going, but I do not want to be called a crazy old man.
So here is the correction, 5/8" @ 100 yds
I only saved one target, they wanted me off the range so I hurried and tore the target.
Managed to salvage this.

 

[Ian]

Universal doesn't have some of the ADVANTAGES that Unique enjoys, either. Position-insensitive, it ain't. Well, neither one is, but some are better than others.

 

[300BLK]

I LIKE Clays for mouse fart loads in the 30-30 and 32-20, but NOT tried it in the 30-06. I also have Bullseye, Green Dot, Universal, Unique,and Herco amongst others. I despise Red Dot. While I know Ben likes International Clays, I chose to go the Herco route and was pleased by the results. I recall shooting 8-12gr under 200gr plainbase in the '06.

 

[quicksylver]

Well....Trying not to be closed minded ,I did manage to pick up 1# of Unigue (I had run out) and am going to give it an honest second try.

 

[smokeywolf]

I have seen Unique used to great effect in 45 ACP, 45 LC and 45-70 Trapdoor loads.

 

[Maven]

I do not know if you have been following Ben's discussion on plain base bullets,
but the statement "any quick pistol powder will work" was made.
I paraphrased a little.
But are there any powders that maybe problematic?
I am thinking 700x, 231, 296 may have issues.
Most other SHOT GUN powders seem likely to work.
We are talking loads in the 30-06 capacity of say 5-8 grs.
OH and using LP primers.

 

[Maven]

I'm another satisfied user of Unique with PB CB's in my rifles (.30-06 and .45-70) and my revolvers (.38Spl., .357Mag., .44Mag.). In the .30-06, for which I only have 1 PB design, I've also had good luck with Clays (original formulation) and Blue Dot.

 

[Brad]

I don't shoot many plain base bullets in rifles but would tend to gravitate towards Red Dot in most cases. The times I used it I had good results, it is bulky and easy to ignite.
Now for a bit more steam I really like 2400. I mean I really, really like 2400. Like above anything else.

 

[300BLK]

Unique has been around for a long time due to being very flexible. That said, I prefer other (newer) powders because they meter better and burn more cleanly.

While I agree that 2400 is one of the most flexible rifle powders, the original topic here was shotshell and pistol powders.

I'm curious as to folks loads with Blue Dot.

 

[frnkeore]

I'm late to this discussion but, what happened to the 5 - 8 gr requirement? I'm seeing mostly 12 - 20 gr loads offered.

I might be better to ask about a velocity range, as 5 - 8 gr rules out many powders slower than Unique, maybe even Unique, if you want a supersonic load.

Regarding Titegroup, I've used it in 22RF, 32/20 (160 gr) and in 8.15x46R (.32 buck), expecting clean burns but, it hasn't burned clean in subsonis loads.

Frank