What Are Acceptable Powders for Plain Base Bullets?

[JWFilips]

Frank,
If you set the scale at 5-8 gr loadings Yes 30 cal & up I think Unique is borderline It soots up the cases pretty bad...So Red Dot, Bullseye, American Select ( what else?) Has to be faster then Unique!

300BLK Just curious as to why you dispise Red Dot? i have issues with it's pressure curve but one you learn it it is a darn accurate powder for light loads

 

[Ben]

I shoot International ( soon to be discontinued I think ? ? ).

It is a nail driving powder for plain base loads.
_________________________________

Modern Bond .30 cal. Spire pt., Plain Based bullet
Sized .3115 "
7.8 grs. of International Clays
Neck Sized
Mixed brass
Lubed with Ben's Red and coated with a very thin coat of LLA.
Wolf Large Rifle primers.
OAL 3.318 "

Here is a 20 round group fired at 50 yards, yes.......20 rounds ! !

Here are the 20 cases that I used to shoot the above group :

The nose section of the bullet engraves about 1/16 " into the rifling when the bolt is closed.

I'll have some fun with this load.

This would make a great training load for a young person who is graduating from a rim fire to a center fire rifle.

Thanks,
Ben

 

[JWFilips]

Ben, another old guy de-graduating from shoulder pounding

 

[Ben]

Certainly beats a 378 Weatherby Magnum factory round.

 

[quicksylver]

Or 4 rounds of trap with a dead stock 870 in T-shirt weather. Hey we all had to start somewhere. Another flash back, remember the Dirty Harry movies? He used a 375 win mag. Already had and still have my 8 3/8", model 29, just had to have the Winchester too. I only shot cast out of it but that was enough. Just like the 69 cal springfields,ahhhh blk powder and mini balls, now there's recoil.

 

[300BLK]

Red Dot? It doesn't meter like Bullseye or Clays and I refuse to weigh charges. In the 12ga I've had enough "bloopers" to convince me to switch to another powder.

 

[JWFilips]

Oh Ok.... I guess I would have to agree with you there. Bullseye is a dream in comparison.

I don't load a lot at any given time maybe 50 rounds per shooting session so I don't mind weighing all my charges. I have an Old ( Gray color) Lyman 55
Seems to dump Red Dot pretty precise ( Within .1 grain) but every once in awhile in need to give it a good whack up side the head to get it back to normal
I find for some reason the older 55's are more precise then the orange ones. Not really sure why, the parts look identical.

 

[300BLK]

Green Dot is much better through a measure and has solved the "blooper" issue in 12ga as well.

 

[quicksylver]

300BLK ....Now there is a dirty powder, good but dirty.
It also has split more sub-gauge tubes than any other powder.
Proving that there is a spike in its' pressure curve for sure.

 

[KHornet]

Late to the party on this one, but have been following it along. My question(s) are: what is the magic about 5-8 grain loads? Presuming desired vols of between 1000-t0-1200, for accuracy with pb's, if it takes 12-15 gr of slower (i.e.) Unique, or more what is the problem? Kind of like JW, have long been a strong user of Bullseye, Unique, and 2400, and will continue to be so as long as they are available. Also shoot a fair amount of Red Dot, but mostly in pistols. Think however I am going to become interested in International Clays, after looking at Ben's results.

 

[JWFilips]

KHornet,
5 grains of Red Dot and a plain base boolit, tumbled in BLL, shooting tight groups,.... well that is the magic of ultimate economy + fun load! You sure can shoot a lot before you have to fill the powder reservoir in powder measure. Unique & 2400 are great but the powder levels drops quicker & those are getting hard to replenish
Jim

 

[quicksylver]

KHornet,,, remember this is the internet. We don't always talk apples and apples. 5-8 grs sounds like a reasonable spread, but for what?
I primarily shoot 30-06 with my 314299PB bullet I have been getting excellent ,reliable 1-1 1/2" groups @ 100 yds, with 7.8 grs of Red dot or Universal Clays.
I tried dropping to 7.6 grs and going to 8-8.2 but things changed rapidly. I believe what everyone else says, but I try and make sure I know what they are shooting.

 

[JWFilips]

As soon as I get a chance I'm going to go through all my cast rifle targets .223, .243, 30-30, 8 mm (well you have see those) and .35 rem Calibers & photograph them.
I have shot the 5 to 6 grain Bullseye load in all those calibers with outstanding results over the past 2 years Not sure why it works but it does

 

[KHornet]

I am thinking that I might as well see if I can get plain base, low Vol loads for every thing I shoot. I have pb molds now for 22's, need a 6MM and 6.5 pb mold which are on the to get list, am ordering a 7MM pb. mold shortly, have 30's and 32(8MM), 35 and 375 I have, and no problem with 45's for my 45-70. The goal for all will be vols between 1000 and 1200 fps. No problem for some (most) of those I load for, but have a bit of a problem with the 375H&H.
Have a 235BB lee mold that shoots very well in the 1600-1800 fps range, and a 250 Lyman that shoots a bit better than the lee at similar vols. Am looking for the 1000-1200 load however. It sure won't be in the 6-8 grain range, and am thinking of possibly 10-14 gr. range of Unique, or Red Dot. or possibly Bullseye.

The 375 case is pretty large in volume, but my deer load for it is a 270 gr Lyman HP over 27 1/2 gr. of 2400 with a filler at about 1800. Shoots Min of Deer. If any one has any experience with 375 loads in the range I am looking for I would appreciate hearing from them. Some time way back (probably over 10-12 years) past, I worked up a round ball load for the 375, and if I recall correctly it shot ok. Probably have that data some place in my books.

 

[JWFilips]

Am looking for the 1000-1200 load however. It sure won't be in the 6-8 grain range, and am thinking of possibly 10-14 gr. range of Unique, or Red Dot. or possibly Bullseye.

KHornet,
I definitely would rather use Unique For the big boys! I would be worried about using Bullseye in those big cases I don't think I ever went higher then 7 grains of BE in any rifle load & I think you probably wouldn't find an old reload manual that would even list it as a load.
Jim

 

[KHornet]

Did find a squib load for a 235 grain over 5 gr of Unique in one of the early Lyman Cast bulled manuals. Just the load and no data. I just loaded 30 or so 375 cases with loads starting with 10 gr. of unique, then 10.5, and then 11.
Will see how they turn out hopefully in the near future.

 

[smokeywolf]

Definitely agree with JW on the Bullseye in a big rifle case. Have used Unique to good effect in reduced Trapdoor level loads of 45-70. Larger cases I usually use 2400, 4759, 4198, 5744, 3031 or 4895. When the kids first started shooting the 03 Springfield I used 2400 and 4895 for reduced loads.

 

[300BLK]

I've used Unique in the 7mm Mag under 150gr cast with reasonable results. 18gr should get 1800fps+

 

[JWFilips]

I would have no problem with 5 or 6 grains BE ( maybe even as high a 7 grains) in a 30-06 Even with a 225 gr boolit Or even in an 8 mm.
I just think that there is a cut off point if you are just trying to reach just close to sonic speed especially if we are talking about 250+ grain boolits .
There is definitely better powders one or two burn rates higher up.
I think we should look at Bullseye only when we want to go as low speed as we can. JMHO
Jim

 

[fiver]

y'all know green-dot is slow red-dot with different colored flakes, and is basically a straight up swap out for P/B data wise.

bullseye has some good property's [much like unique] in it's ability to climb in powder volume without climbing in pressure drastically.
just about anything designated for shotshell [target type loads] use will burn well in low pressure situations, it's designed to do that.