165 grain over Universal in a 30-06 ?

[Mitty38]

Here is the spiel.I remember Fiver mentioning the possibility of low velocity using Hodgdon Universal in the 30-06, with 110 grain. For my Savage 30-06.
Was going to buy a few 110's to play with, till I decide on a mold. But.....
Got 200 or so Meister 165 Grain pre- lubed sized Hard cast Lead Flat Nose. From a guy that sold his 30-30. They measure at .309.
Well, had went to the gun shop and grabbed some H335 yesterday, or so I thought. I grabbed another jug of Universal.

Firm believer in using what you got when you can.
So 30-06. Meister 165 grain(.309) over Universal.
Has anyone ever went there with a 30-06 load? What were the results? Maybe some of you could throw me a proverbial bone?

 

[fiver]

lets see if I describe this bullet correctly.
a bevel base, 2 drive bands with lube [blue?] between them, a crimp groove and another drive band, then a step down to a nose about .299 diameter just before it rolls into a flat point.
[just a guess from memory]

8grs.

 

[Ian]

Sounds like perfect recipe for learning how to get lead out of a barrel. #2 on 8 grains.

 

[Spindrift]

I would load a little ladder from 8-9 grs. For starters, 8-8,5-9. Somewhere in this range, you’ll cross from sub- to transsonic velocities, pay attention to the crack. Universal has worked well for me, typically around 8,5grs with PB bullets in .30-06. Good luck!

 

[Ben]

Wish the .309 was .311 "

Ben

 

[Ole_270]

165 Ranch Dog over 10 gr Universal gives 1440 fps out of my 308 if that gives you any indication. It works fairly similar to Unique, I use lots of it in 16 gauge and 38-55.

 

[Mitty38]

lets see if I describe this bullet correctly.
a bevel base, 2 drive bands with lube [blue?] between them, a crimp groove and another drive band, then a step down to a nose about .299 diameter just before it rolls into a flat point.
[just a guess from memory]

8grs.

I would load a little ladder from 8-9 grs. For starters, 8-8,5-9. Somewhere in this range, you’ll cross from sub- to transsonic velocities, pay attention to the crack. Universal has worked well for me, typically around 8,5grs with PB bullets in .30-06. Good luck!

Wish the .309 was .311 "

Ben

Yep I bow before the great and wise Fiver.






Thanks for giving me a heads up on this. will be working on some starter loads tonight.





Wish it was a .310 or .311, but beggars can not be choosers, I have a barely shot Axis, the cambers and barrels usualy run a little tight in those, Have slugged my barrel and it comes out to exactly .3075 across the grooves, so the .309 should be Ok.
BTW I have had a 357 for a while, and also a bit of horse trading for old guns. So I know where the wife keeps the Copper Chore boy and the sewing machine oil.

 

[Tomme boy]

Universal is Hodgdons version of unique.

 

[Mitty38]

Universal is Hodgdons version of unique.

I have used both in .38 special- .38+p and .357 mouse fart loads with cci primers. I have found that, at least for me, and my gun,the Universal seems to most always take around .2 more grains by weight to achieve the same accuracy as Unique.And yes, I understand that lot #'s and other factors can effect this.
So yes, I would say they are very close in the least.
However not preferring one over the other, concerning Alliant and Hodgdon, my local dealer only carries Hodgdon an Western powders. So I have graduated to Universal to save me miles of driving or those nasty hazmat shipping fees.

 

[Mitty38]

Ok got 5 pills loaded up with 7.8 grains Universal . This the closest my lee disc will drop to 8 grains actual weight, without going over or modifying a disk. Crimped to the given crimp groove. We will see what happens, when I get out to shoot.

 

[fiver]

let us know, I know you have red-dot and we can rework your loads some if necessary.

 

[Ian]

Put the cartridges in the chamber exactly the same way every time, or elevate the muzzle to about 30⁰ before settling in for each shot. Universal isn't as position sensitive as some but still is there. The transonic buffeting Spindrift mentioned is for realsies so if you get some really bad scattergun groups and tipping, add more powder or back off until you don't get the crack anymore and tune down from there.

 

[Mitty38]

Put the cartridges in the chamber exactly the same way every time, or elevate the muzzle to about 30⁰ before settling in for each shot. Universal isn't as position sensitive as some but still is there. The transonic buffeting Spindrift mentioned is for realsies so if you get some really bad scattergun groups and tipping, add more powder or back off until you don't get the crack anymore and tune down from there.

I'll be sure to do that. Thanks for the advise.
Was also considering using my drill press and opening up the flash holes a bit on some dedicated cases, if position sensitivity becomes an issue.

I have heard that may help sometimes with that.
I used Winchester magnum primers for this load so I hope that helps a bit, as they seam to be a bit "spikier" than others I have used, which could be a good thing in this case.
Was going out this morning, but life happened. My plans have been changed for me. So now it might be next week till I get out, since I work 12's and shift starts tomorrow.

 

[Ian]

Don't drill rifle brass. The only time to drill flash holes is for shooting blanks or wax bullets with primer only.

Hotter primers generally don't help position sensitivity but can cause...or fix...other problems.

 

[Mitty38]

Loading up 10 more, tonight. So I will have 5 at 7.8 grains, 5 at 8.3 grain, 5 at 8.6 grain. To try, when I can finally get out.

 

[Mitty38]

By the way any of you had issues with temp sensitivity and Universal?
I had worked up most of my 38-357 loads at aprox 65 to 80 degrees F, and
have had no issues or change in accuracy at cooler or warmer temps with those loads.
However, never have worked up a load while as cold as 35 deg.F with Universal. And especially with the extra air space?
I am wondering if I should wait till them goes up to 50 or so before I test fire?
As the indoor range, I have access to, will not alloy rifles of any kind.

 

[Ian]

I haven't had any issues but by 35 degrees I have to have a very compelling reason to be at a shooting bench. At your load levels I doubt you will notice any difference at all.

 

[Spindrift]

Shot 8grs of Universal at 30˚F in a .30-06 last weekend, no problem.

 

[Mitty38]

11 degrees this morning....but....Found out someone had rigged up a makeshift tent around the rifle bench stand. (We do this to give the deer hunters a nice warm, dry spot to sight in the New Deer guns, right before gun season.)Took my rifle and heater down this morning. Let the bench area warm up for about an hr while I got some McDonald coffee, with my wife. Came back and a guy was enjoying my heat, sighting in a brand new American ranch in 350 legend. But that is another topic entirely.
So this morning....
Set up target at 50 yards- 5 cartridge each load
7.8 grain
6 " 50 yard groups, first four I did the 30 degree angle thing,the 5th one I tipped down and shook, it did produce a flyer.
Got leading just in the throat of the barrel.
Cleaned out the small amount of leading then shot a fmj thru it to make sure the lead was out.
8.3 grain
About a 3 inch group,# 5 tipped down and shook did not become a flyer. No perceived leading.
Shot another fmj thru it, just because.
8.6 grain
Not leading, group tightened up to about 1.80 inches at 50 yd. No perceived position sensitivity. No unburden powder.No leading.
Believe I might stop right there. Probably could go for better, but It will suit me just fine.

Got my scope zeroed in a 2 inches high at 100 yards with federal 180 grain none typical hunting loads. So....
Thinking about loading up some more at 8.6 grain. Then playing with the distance of the target till I get it circling the bulls-eye, with this load.
Then just making that my practice distance, for that load-rifle.
Will definitely wait till it gets warmer till I get out range shooting again!
Think it will be just fine for hitting a 6 inch steel to practice and get better with this rifle. least till I get these bullets used up.

 

[Spindrift]

Excellent, Mitty! Fun, wasn’t it? Sounds like a good idea, to just shoot and enjoy the bullets you have. It is a limited supply, after all.....would be rather frustrating to develop a perfect load, only to discover you’re out of bullets

By the way, if you are looking for a cheap mould for your .30-06, the Lee .312/7.62- moulds are good. I have shot the c312-185 quite a lot, and it seems to work quite well in all my .30 cal guns, as long as I keep loads reasonable.