165 grain over Universal in a 30-06 ?
- Thread starter Mitty38
- Start date
Mitty38
Well-Known Member
I shure appreciate all the help with info , and choices available. I literally have a note pad that I write down info and choices avalible.
I am a little slow going at things some times as I tend to get one thing at a time, After making an informed decision, considering my space limitations, finances, what deciding over one thing or the other at this time will make things, easier, more versitile,more accurate, or less expensive later on.(For example it took me a year at deciding to handload, before I bought the gun to load for, and a Lee .38 special value turret starter set.)
Helping me out with the low velocity 30_06 load was greatly appreciated.Because without your help, probably would have gone thru the .200 bullets without finding a good plinking load. Since I hadn't any published data on this.
I am a little slow going at things some times as I tend to get one thing at a time, After making an informed decision, considering my space limitations, finances, what deciding over one thing or the other at this time will make things, easier, more versitile,more accurate, or less expensive later on.(For example it took me a year at deciding to handload, before I bought the gun to load for, and a Lee .38 special value turret starter set.)
Helping me out with the low velocity 30_06 load was greatly appreciated.Because without your help, probably would have gone thru the .200 bullets without finding a good plinking load. Since I hadn't any published data on this.
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Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
There's nothing wrong with going slow in this game. Too many people have tried to jump into the game with a progressive press, store bought cast and immediately try to match factory speeds with a copper fouled 317 Loudenboomer Eargensplitten Super Meduim Long Belted White Out Magnum. Things generally go down hill right off the bat!
Mitty38
Well-Known Member
Spindrift
Well-Known Member
I use the NOE expanders for all my cast bullet reloading. I’m very happy with them. I would suggest up-grading the «lock ring» on the Lee die body, though. If you have a ring that actually locks, it is «set and forget». Then, if you want to change to another plug, you can measure/record the total length of the die when it is correctly adjusted, which makes it quicker to return it to its original setting.
For the .30-06 and .308, I now use the .313x.309 for bullets sized .310, for a neck tension of one thou. Particularily with plain base bullets, I have found this light neck tension beneficial. GC- bullets tolerate more neck tension. But mostly, I use the light neck tension, and add a little crimp if I observe things that indicate a little higher tension could be in place (soot on the case necks, or un-burned granulae).
For the .30-06 and .308, I now use the .313x.309 for bullets sized .310, for a neck tension of one thou. Particularily with plain base bullets, I have found this light neck tension beneficial. GC- bullets tolerate more neck tension. But mostly, I use the light neck tension, and add a little crimp if I observe things that indicate a little higher tension could be in place (soot on the case necks, or un-burned granulae).
Mitty38
Well-Known Member
Thanks, trying to get my head around a few things. Since I have already gone down the road with the Lee universal expander, this looked like the obvious next step.
They look like a better way. Once I get decide on a mold and sizer. Looks like they would keep things nice and straight with a lot less stretching the rim of the case neck.
They look like a better way. Once I get decide on a mold and sizer. Looks like they would keep things nice and straight with a lot less stretching the rim of the case neck.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Along the lines your thinking Mitty, case neck annealing can make a big difference. If you're using once fired factory brass and FL sizing you will usually find the neck to case mouth area pretty work hardened. Annealing can fix that IF you find you are "squashing" bullets in seating. Along the same lines I have also done everything I could to ensure a completely "un-squashed" bullet after seating only to then crimp the case and ruin the whole thing. But before you get to worrying about that you'll need to see what your mould is giving you in the way of diameter with your alloy. And then you need to decided what, if any, sizing you are going to do. Myself, I have had very good shooting in a lot of guns using bullets that got no sizing at all. If a bullet drops from the mould running, say, .3115 and you can chamber the round into the leade without much interference, they often shoot really good like that. IOW, you don't HAVE to size if you don't need to. Again, you're going to have to see what things look like. Some advice I found helpful years back was to measure the ID of a case fired with a factory level load in the rifle you are using. That will be about the max diameter you can get away with in that rifle with that brass unless you get into neck reaming/turning. Fat bullets generally shoot better until you get into graduate level work where dynamic fit parameters can dictate a slightly smaller diameter bullet, or so I've read. I'm still at the community college level myself! But don't get the cart before the horse. Cast some bullets, measure some brass and see what things look like. You might end up with a bullet dropping at .3105 and find you need something more like .312. Got a couple moulds like that.
And another FWIW- Some of the best preforming loads I ever put together were done with nothing more than a pair of needle nose pliers used to slightly flare the case mouth. We tend to like the tools involved in this game just as much as the shooting itself. I'd hold off spending $ until I knew for sure I needed something. I base that on a great multitude of nearly unused tools and accessories occupying my reloading and casting room.
And another FWIW- Some of the best preforming loads I ever put together were done with nothing more than a pair of needle nose pliers used to slightly flare the case mouth. We tend to like the tools involved in this game just as much as the shooting itself. I'd hold off spending $ until I knew for sure I needed something. I base that on a great multitude of nearly unused tools and accessories occupying my reloading and casting room.
fiver
Well-Known Member
we all have our way of doing things.
my default 30 cal size is 310.
I spec my custom molds to make 310 this gives me a little lee-way with alloy selection to get things just that little bit more 310ish.
some rifles are probably not going to be happy with 310 or to say it another way they could be just a little happier with 311.
those are generally rifles like the 03A3 types.
newer rifles... I go straight to 310 and work them over looking at many other things than the drive band diameter.
then there is always the 32 win that takes 324 bullets like a champ and thinks cast should go faster than jacketed bullets to shoot it's best.
my default 30 cal size is 310.
I spec my custom molds to make 310 this gives me a little lee-way with alloy selection to get things just that little bit more 310ish.
some rifles are probably not going to be happy with 310 or to say it another way they could be just a little happier with 311.
those are generally rifles like the 03A3 types.
newer rifles... I go straight to 310 and work them over looking at many other things than the drive band diameter.
then there is always the 32 win that takes 324 bullets like a champ and thinks cast should go faster than jacketed bullets to shoot it's best.
Just as a data point Mitty.....
I'll bump noses "up" on bore riders that are a bit small in that section. Will swage down,either straight OR tapered on a bore rider. Run bullet bases cross a Bridgeport milling machine to square bases,AND/OR shorten overall bullet length. Have tooling to "roll swage" lube grooves into perfection with or without knurling. Can also hollow point to any shape and depths desired. Started to play with,and probably gonna revisit dimpling GC and bases....... BUT.....
Almost never size the body on a rifle bullet. That's what your barrel does. In my,not so humble opinion,sizing body's (in the traditional sense,through H/I style dies) is completely backward thinking. Find,order,or borrowed moulds that drop consistent weights,and perfectly round bullets and then let your barrel do the sizing is the way to go.
Very best of luck in your pursuit. Gotta be patient,and don't be afraid to spin your wheels making a few mistakes. That's still one of the best teachers. Cheers,BW
I'll bump noses "up" on bore riders that are a bit small in that section. Will swage down,either straight OR tapered on a bore rider. Run bullet bases cross a Bridgeport milling machine to square bases,AND/OR shorten overall bullet length. Have tooling to "roll swage" lube grooves into perfection with or without knurling. Can also hollow point to any shape and depths desired. Started to play with,and probably gonna revisit dimpling GC and bases....... BUT.....
Almost never size the body on a rifle bullet. That's what your barrel does. In my,not so humble opinion,sizing body's (in the traditional sense,through H/I style dies) is completely backward thinking. Find,order,or borrowed moulds that drop consistent weights,and perfectly round bullets and then let your barrel do the sizing is the way to go.
Very best of luck in your pursuit. Gotta be patient,and don't be afraid to spin your wheels making a few mistakes. That's still one of the best teachers. Cheers,BW
Was thinking of you this a.m. loading 22-250's Mitty. Even though we have some pretty stupid high $$$ coincitricity (runout) gages,this flat sheet metal plate* let's me quickly keep tabs on runout. With practice you can easily "see" ( vs measure) .001" runout. The loading this morning was dead nuts perfect.
Can't see it in the pic but there's a 1/8" shim under the upper end. Set cartridge OR bullet on it and let gravity slowly roll them. The side benny is it's a hillbilly "whiteboard". Write notes N measures on it and wipe off with the fingernail polish remover (acetone) that you swipe from wifey.... also use this to get lube off pretty much anything in the loading room.
* this happens to be an electricians "nail plate" used to protect wiring from nails/screws. It's 5X8,ask an electrician.... he'll give you one.
Can't see it in the pic but there's a 1/8" shim under the upper end. Set cartridge OR bullet on it and let gravity slowly roll them. The side benny is it's a hillbilly "whiteboard". Write notes N measures on it and wipe off with the fingernail polish remover (acetone) that you swipe from wifey.... also use this to get lube off pretty much anything in the loading room.
* this happens to be an electricians "nail plate" used to protect wiring from nails/screws. It's 5X8,ask an electrician.... he'll give you one.
****Slight drift alert****
Ian,kinda like new cars with the start,"button" and the key in your pocket. Either way,you have to "do" something. Even if it's a "remote" key..... still gotta push something.
So it is with right much metrology. You gotta "look" at the gage. Might as well roll it and,look at the wobble? Stated only,barely tongue in cheek. BW
Ian,kinda like new cars with the start,"button" and the key in your pocket. Either way,you have to "do" something. Even if it's a "remote" key..... still gotta push something.
So it is with right much metrology. You gotta "look" at the gage. Might as well roll it and,look at the wobble? Stated only,barely tongue in cheek. BW
Mitty38
Well-Known Member
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, Intheshop!
This post is extremely amusing, but also very informative, to me.
Why??I have a piece of precision milled aluminum plate. I roll all my loaded rounds across it and put aside any that I can see wobble on, for steel plinking.
Shooting them up first. Saving the straight ones for when I am trying to "shoot dimes".
I have always done this since day 1. I never knew why, I just felt it would help, as I have used flat tables in machine and automotive work in the past..
I never mentioned it to anyone, as I have never heard of anyone else doing it.
So I guess this means I am not crazy? Right?
Or have I finally found the right band of equally loony, like minded, fellows to run with?
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fiver
Well-Known Member
Emmitt.
you ain't seen or heard half the stuff we have tried or do just yet.
I can quote paper and tape thicknesses, and tell you the makeup of the additives they put in some papers because I'm a bullet caster.
I also know how to copper coat bullets... sigh.
I know some others here that shall remain nameless that have gone down the same holes, and some even a little further in some areas 'just to see'
I have a weird fondness for bubarood milsurp rifles and half finished projects or the parts and pieces of mostly finished projects to finish off one of mine.
I've kind of backed off the new projects so I can finish acquiring the stuff to finish off some of the ones I have already got stuffed in a corner or laying on a shelf.
it sucks when you find a box with 30 pieces of brass in one bag, 20 more with turned necks to some weird diameter, a size die that's been partially modified and the tools to finish the job,,,, and can't remember why you put all that stuff together.
or if it all goes together, if you finished the die, or worse if you even still have the gun you started all that work for.
you ain't seen or heard half the stuff we have tried or do just yet.
I can quote paper and tape thicknesses, and tell you the makeup of the additives they put in some papers because I'm a bullet caster.
I also know how to copper coat bullets... sigh.
I know some others here that shall remain nameless that have gone down the same holes, and some even a little further in some areas 'just to see'
I have a weird fondness for bubarood milsurp rifles and half finished projects or the parts and pieces of mostly finished projects to finish off one of mine.
I've kind of backed off the new projects so I can finish acquiring the stuff to finish off some of the ones I have already got stuffed in a corner or laying on a shelf.
it sucks when you find a box with 30 pieces of brass in one bag, 20 more with turned necks to some weird diameter, a size die that's been partially modified and the tools to finish the job,,,, and can't remember why you put all that stuff together.
or if it all goes together, if you finished the die, or worse if you even still have the gun you started all that work for.
Mitty38
Well-Known Member
Just picked up a used RCBS Reloader Special set for cheap. I only had a neck sizer.Needed a full length standard size sizer.
I had no way to full length size once fired 30-06 brass from another rifle till now.
Already had a seating die with no crimp.
Do not know much about RCBS, but looks like the seating die might have a slight taper crimp? So I just may try it out too.
I had no way to full length size once fired 30-06 brass from another rifle till now.
Already had a seating die with no crimp.
Do not know much about RCBS, but looks like the seating die might have a slight taper crimp? So I just may try it out too.
