1894 44 mag test continues

[Ian]

That's the band, I have cussed that little bugger enough that I don't use that mould anymore.

It's a poor solution to making a combo gas check/plain base design without altering any other features. IMO, make a gas check design a gas check design, and a plain base a plain base, don't compromise something like the most important driving band on the bullet just for manufacturing purposes.

 

[Josh]

It's a poor solution to making a combo gas check/plain base design without altering any other features. IMO, make a gas check design a gas check design, and a plain base a plain base, don't compromise something like the most important driving band on the bullet just for manufacturing purposes.

E-freaking-zactly

 

[Winelover]

Here is a picture comparing the PB versus the GC design....for those that are concerned with larger bands. FWIW, I find no discernible difference in group sizes with my carbine. I reserve the GC design for higher powder charges.

 

[Brad]

I like the looks of the plain base. Unless you are really pushing it hard you shouldn't need a gas check. I pushed the Lee 434640 plain base as hard as H110 can and it never leaded. Accuracy was as good as I have had yet with the rifle so I don't see a need for a check.

You cast a good looking bullet John. Were those sized in a Star?

 

[Winelover]

You cast a good looking bullet John. Were those sized in a Star?

Thanks Brad, I try.

Bullets sized in a RCBS Lam II......Star is only used for rifle bullets. Don't want to invest in duplicate dies for the Star, for handgun calibers.

I have gotten away from gas checks in all, but rifle bullets. More cost effective and less work.

 

[KHornet]

I also have gotten totally away from GC's on hand gun bullets.
Elmer was right way back when on the subject!

 

[Brad]

Got out and shot some this morning. I had loaded 40 rounds with the 265 RD cast from air cooled range scrap. Probably running 11 BHn this close after casting. Sized to .432 and lubed 2 grooves with Bens Red. Added a gator check too.
Load was 21 gr of H110 with a CCI 350 primer

Now I feel like I am getting somewhere. With bullets this soft I was a bit surprised at the results. I want heat treat some and see how that alters grouping.
Velocity ran 1632 fps.

I fired 15 into targets then headed to a pistol bay to shoot some 45 ACP. I shot up a bowling pin and put some of the remaining 44 mag loads into the pin. Range was around 25 yards.


Bullets held together reasonably well but you can see how soft the alloy is. They did not completely penetrate the pin at 25 yards. I am sure that cast even a little harder they would go clean thru.

 

[Ian]

Looks like one heck of a cup in that gas check, too. Might be too soft for hunting if it hit bone, maybe a mild heat treat or just alloy-up a nice 1:1 Sn/Sb to about 13-15 bhn.

 

[Brad]

Yeah, that alloy would be bad on deer at that velocity. Hit a bone and it may stop right there.
I cast 40 today from a slightly enhanced alloy. Will see what those do.
Heat treating may help. Bullets won't become brittle but may well hold shape better.

 

[Rick]

I don't think you'll get much from comparing a solid lump of Acer Saccharum to Bambi. What is Acer Saccharum you ask? That's what bowling pins are typically made of, better known as Rock Maple.

 

[Brad]

Anyone know where I can find bowling pins made from whitetail?

I didn't save the few remnants I pulled from the berm, they were even more mangled than the one from the pin. We have had lots of rain the last week and the clay soil holds moisture well. That stuff can be pretty tough on bullets.

I hope for some dry weather so I can shoot more and get some scrap. Wet berms don't give up lead very well.

 

[waco]

Anyone know where I can find bowling pins made from whitetail?

This made me spit beer out!

 

[Brad]

Shot more today. The 245 ACE mould did pretty well. This is 23.5 gr H110 and a CCI 350 primer in Starline brass. The big hole is 3 shots. Not great but the best the rifle has done yet.
These were cast from an alloy that runs around 12 BHn. I shot a few cast from a much harder alloy, closer to 20 BHn, and they did very poorly. Like 6-8 inches poorly.
I am finding that this rifle doesn't like, or need, a very hard alloy to shoot well.

 

[Josh]

Can you bump to 24 gr? How bout the velocity on that? But the big question is, were those the 1st 3 shots?

 

[Ian]

Uh-Oh. I baked those PC bullets for 30 minutes and water-quenched them. WW alloy. Probably didn't get them hot enough to completely harden, though. If you decide to load some up and they don't do well, you can un-bake a few of them and try again, just don't go over 375°F or it will make the PC brittle.

What's that group, 1-3/4? At 50 yards? Looks like you're to the fine-tune point with that new bullet, or maybe just DONE.

 

[Brad]

Those are not the first 3 shots. They were 2,4,5. I have some rest issues. That is something I plan to work on in the near future.
The velocity was 1791 fps average for 5 shots. I think can easily go 24 and probably even 24.5 gr.

This is at 50 yards. Once I get a handle on loads at 50 I will move to 100 yards.

Lots more work to do with this bullet. So far it is showing great promise.

 

[Brad]

Ian, I think the PC will let those bullets do fine. I think the alloy I used was hard enough to keep the pressure from keeping a good seal with the bore as the bullet traveled along the lands. Lots of antimony wash left behind. I think the PC will help with seal issues as it will flow easier than a hard lead bullet. The PC also should help prevent the Sb wash.

 

[Ian]

The PC should completely eliminate antimony wash from forming in a clean bore. If you do shoot them, it might be better to Chore-Boy the bore first and get most of the wash out of the corners of the grooves. With the much milder loads I've shot PC'd, they will clear out a lot of fouling but tend to take the dull grey wash type of fouling and distribute it quite evenly through the bore rather than wipe it clean. If I start clean, it stays clean. I don't know if the same will hold true for the hotter loads or not.

I really think at this point you're going to get where you wanted with that new bullet, without powder coating, but it's an option if you need it and I can do a few of the new 245 bullets for you if you like.

 

[Brad]

We will find out?
I need to give the rifle a good cleaning anyway. The action is getting a bit grungy. I must have 4-500 rounds since the last cleaning. Luckily they were heavier loads so the cases sealed the chamber pretty well and kept lube out of the action to a large extent.
Felix lube in my Marlin 45 Colt will fill the action with lube in a hurry. Light pressure with that huge chambers means lots of powder gas and lube in the action. Yuck.

 

[Will]

Brad does your 1894 have Ballard or micro groove rifling?