218 Bee Inquiry

[CZ93X62]

It is time to take this subject up in its own thread. This caliber is terra incognita to yours truly, and I am starting the R&D in hopes of landing the little Martini-Henry so chambered at the local toy store tomorrow.

I dived into the literature a bit last night, and got a bit of a surprise--it sends bullets of the same weight at slightly higher velocities than does the 22 Hornet. Didn't know THAT. The rifle in question is a single-shot, so no worries about flat-pointed bullets causing grief in a tubular magazine. I have a wide assortment of appropriate bullets for the caliber, having a bolter Hornet already--to include Lyman #225438 and some Condor Cuddler Barnes 30 grainers.

An accurate 22 Hornet like the ones I have had for the past 5 years are a genuine delight. They are perfect for about 90% of the varminting I am doing these days in the local mountains--the CZ-527 is perfect for walking-around hunts, and this 218 with stout-approaching-truck-axle tube will do nicely from the tabletop. With the Hornet 150 yards is very reasonable, 200 is a bit of a reach but do-able if you know the load's behavior. The Hornet is a fun caliber that punches well above its weight class and reaches farther than a lot of people give it credit for. I think the 218 will do similar work, and so will be quite useful.

 

[Bret4207]

Mine is on a Winchester 43 platform and someone (not me this time) hotrodded it at some point and the lugs have a bit of set back. To me it is something between a 22 Hornet and 222. A little bit more than the Hornet, quite a bit less than the 222. I've only used 45 gr bullets IIRC and 2400. Speeds upward of 2800 fps are possible with that combo. I've never owned a Hornet, but they are probably pretty similar. I got mine mostly because of my affection for the 32-20 based cartridges and also because I wanted something like a 22Mag rifle I could reload for.

Honestly, I haven't bought brass for anything much outside of some gun show '06 stuff a few years back. Back when I was buying I got a mess when it was readily available. I dread having to ever hunt for more of ANY brass in the future.

My draw to a Martini in 218 would be mostly the action/caliber combo. That's a 1940's/50's classic. I didn't realize it also had the heavy, heavy barrel. I was picturing a lightweight walking varminter.

 

[Bill]

I have been hoarding a coffee can full of brass for 40 years, waiting for one to come along, still waiting

Bill

 

[david s]

I use a bunch of Hornets but only one 218 Bee, a Browning 65 lever gun. The brass situation is manageable as Starline still produces 32-20 brass. This was a God's send as if you've looked for 218 Bee brass in the last 10-12 years it's been just plain gone. Used 218 brass was going for $1 apiece. The Starline brass forms up just a bit short but is perfectly usable. And the little flat tip Speer bullets are still about $11 dollars for a hundred. There was a run of Hornady brass made a couple of years ago, I dont know if it's still available. I haven't played with cast in this rifle instead shooting lead in one of the Hornets. If you shoot Lil'Gun in the Hornet with 45 grain bullets it catches up to the Bee pretty much. That said it's a bit of an apples to oranges comparison with scoped Hornets vs a tang sighted lever rifle. The bead on the 218 covers just about a whole ground squirrel at about 85 yards.

 

[Bret4207]

Grafs had 218 brass in hand as of yesterday.

 

[fiver]

Winchester did make some a few years back. [probably 10, so they should be just about due for their seasonal run]
I was gonna snag the few bags I seen in person to make 25-20 cases out of, but decided someone with a 218 could probably use them a little more.

 

[CZ93X62]

Both 218 Bee and 25/20 WCF brass seem to be disappearing, that's a fact. I went to a gun show some years ago in Boise with a number of the members of the old site, and had a fine time--as is always the case with that passel of miscreants. At that show I found 450 pieces of new 25/20 brass IN PLASTIC CARTRIDGE BOXES for the paltry sum of $50 cash. Basically, free brass. I do count my blessings when they land in my lap in that manner.

Being the conscientious projectile pourer that I am, I haven't looked at the Speer catalog to see if they still offered their 75 grain flatpoint for the 25/20 leverguns OR the 46 grainer for the 218. I still have about 150 of the 75 grainers on hand here, they shot well in my rifles. But so do Lymans #257420 and -312, and the 100-year-old barrel steel in my Marlin 27S likely prefers the castings to the redcoats.

I share Bret's fondness for these smaller WCF hyphenated calibers. If this 218 comes my way, it will leave only one of these chamberings outside my collection--the 38/40. Will I hunt for an example? Not passionately, but if one comes my way at reasonable tariff level......

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

I have owned three. A Marlin 1894 Classic I should not have sold. A 10” Octagon Contender and a Winchester 43.
You are exactly correct. Its just a bit more powerful than the hornet in a reloading friendlier case. I generally also only shoot “hornet” bullets in mine. Speer came out with a wonderful little 46g FP that i like allot. To “pep it up” Hornady Vmax made a 35g too.

I haven’t shot the ‘tender barrel in years. Just the other night I installed a base and red dot. Irons are hard to see. (I carefully bagged marked and stored rear site. )

CW

 

[fiver]

I don't know if Hornady still offers their little 60or 65gr rnfp interlock bullet or not.
that was a great little hunting bullet for medium size small game like turkey's and coyotes.

 

[CZ93X62]

Lamar--

Hornady still shows that .257" flat-point 60 grainer on their website; Speer does not show their 75 grain FP on their site. Speer still shows the 46 grain .224" FP, though.

Moral of the story--pour yer own to assure yer supply chain. Don't leave your shooting future solely in the hands of the wonks in cubicle farms at component-maker office complexes.

 

[Ian]

That's a good moral, Allen. Also, if you have a few indispensable powder or primer requirements....lay in a lifetime supply because you never know what will happen and Hodgdon will for sure discontinue your favorites in time just as they have done in the past.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

IIRC that 75g was Speers .257 offering for the 25-20 that they also offered in the 1894 Classic

CW

 

[CZ93X62]

Yessir--the rifle/caliber and Speer bullet appeared on scene at about the same time (late 1980s). That applies to the 218 Bee, 25/20, and 32/20.

The three Winchester calibers and the 22 Hornet are all excellent calibers that can be handloaded very cheaply and at almost full performance with cast bullets. J-words might be better general-performance choices once past 2200 FPS, though I got some good work out of #225438 to almost 2400 FPS in the Hornet from 2 rifles. Both Linotype and 92/6/2 did about as well as one another, nothing to choose from between them. I have no experience with the powder-coating or other bullet-painting regimens, but folks here whose opinions and expressed experiences I respect greatly hold the processes in high regard. That's good enough for me--I might not ever try it out, but I won't speak against it either.

 

[fiver]

I was skeptical too Allen until I tried it.
I'm not gonna change over 100% hell not even 20 err 10%,, but the few places I use it, it works just fine and it does have a few things to offer.

 

[CZ93X62]

Lamar--you are among those I spoke of above. My reluctance has more to do with just not wanting to run down another rabbit hole at present.

 

[fiver]

I don't blame you.
it took me a long time to break down and buy an oven and finally some powder, and the whole process slows me down quite a bit.
I can live without it, but it's nice to have the process in my back pocket if I need it.

 

[Bret4207]

Al, if you ever do go hunting for a 38-40, I beleive Remington made a beauty of a little pump for it at one time. Carries like a 92 Win but fits like a glove against your shoulder moreso than even a Win 92. Of course I've only seen 2 or 3 in my life time and none of those in 40 years...

As long as Star-Line remains in business, you can form any of the 32-20 cals. Great brass, far nicer than even old Remington stuff, and I have some going back into the 50's.

Speaking of makers discontinuing bullets, I was on Grafs looking for 160 Hornady RN for the 6.5. They are in stock. Godawfulexpensive, but in stock. I was thinking of grabbing 2-3 boxes for the 6.5 Roberts and Swede. They simply work.

 

[CZ93X62]

Remington kinda "owns" the pump-action long gun market, and has for a long time. That little Marlin 27-S I have is a work in progress, its Remington counterpart would be a nice find. Pump rifles are VERY scarce in the West.

 

[Ian]

Powder coat may not be the best answer for the Bee, unless one of us manages to crack the code on how to get extremely fine accuracy with the process. So far I'm happy with using it for my hunting loads where 1-1.5 MOA for ten shots at full-on jacketed velocity in any weather without needing to clean or worry about cold-barrel flyers is beaucoup better than a 1/2" load at half-throttle, tuned to a 20⁰ temperature window.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

I havent tried them in the bee. I dont shoot it wnough. I shoot my KHormet more. Mostly cause its a H&R and I dont have to worry about it. My bees are a Winchester 43 and a 10” Octagon Tender.

Cw