45-70 paper patch, first results.

Pb2au

Pb2au

Active Member
image.jpeg 540 Money, buffalo arms parallel side mold.
70 grains by volume, goex 2f. No compression.
Over powder card,
50/50 beeswax vasoline lube cookie, 060" thick
100 yards
Results,
Fouling control,,is not in control. Requires wiping between shots, damp then dry.
Recoil, quite manageable as expected.
Group is below. About 8"-ish inches.
A few of the holes look a little suspicious, like slightly obround.
I have concluded that the patch is not releasing from the bullet consistently. Little visible or physical evidence of patch remains in front of the bench, checked out to 30 yards, no patches. The range officer behind me was watching for the patches or confetti at firing and saw nothing.
So I must percolate on that, as it is ringing alarm bells in my brain.
Anyway, it's is a start!
1) look at size and patching. Something is going on there.
2) give the powder a bit of compression. Black powder likes a bit of compression, so we will do that.
3) think about lube cookies and fouling control some more.
 
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S Mac

S Mac

Sept. 10, 2021 Steve left us. You are missed.
Well at least you got on paper, my first trial I didn't do as well.
 
RBHarter

RBHarter

West Central AR
It may take a while for the paper to lap in ...... BP paper isn't something I've shot, lots of smokeless paper though. I've had a
bbl shine up and be making big confetti in 5-10 shots and another that took a 100 and bang groups and fine confetti .
 
Pb2au

Pb2au

Active Member
RBHarter said:
It may take a while for the paper to lap in ...... BP paper isn't something I've shot, lots of smokeless paper though. I've had a
bbl shine up and be making big confetti in 5-10 shots and another that took a 100 and bang groups and fine confetti .
Click to expand...
RbHarter
Now that it interesting info. Thank you for that.

Fiver,
That was nagging it the back of my mind as well. It is easy to test, as I have plenty of beeswax and now access to tallow. I'm going mix up a new batch of lube for the next go round.

Thanks for the thoughts gentleman.
 
RBHarter

RBHarter

West Central AR
I've read that there is a huge difference between BP and smokeless, being a mechanical sort I see it as sizing difference and prefered papers . Not being a hardened traditionalist I wasn't certain about the lube as I've seen some say any petroleum products are not good and some say a little vasoline is ok because it's not really petroleum. ...... ok whatever I'm not a chemist. The clan I shoot BP with lean toward exclusive use of animal fat ,plant oil and beeswax. Olive bee being preferred as quick and easy for pills,wads and grooves although I have met 1 of them that has a bag rubbed slick with bear grease. I will venture into that when I use up the remaining 5-6 tube of bore butter.
 
Pb2au

Pb2au

Active Member
Now that I think about it, I have a tube of bore butter somewhere in the empire of dirt.
I believe that will be my first change. I really don't want to change a bunch of things at once.
Bore butter, ad a little compression to the powder and try and again.
 
Pb2au

Pb2au

Active Member
that's what use it for as well. I was just musing if I could stiffen it up a bit with some more beeswax....
At that point it would be better just to make up 50/50 wax and olive oil, so I know for sure what I am working with.
 
smokeywolf

smokeywolf

Well-Known Member
One of the recipes that is supposed to be similar to SPG has:

Bee's Wax
Anhydrous Lanolin
Olive or Canola oil

Not sure of the quantities.
 
Pb2au

Pb2au

Active Member
The wax and the oil I have, I will have to look into the lanolin, or buy a sheep or two...
 
Pb2au

Pb2au

Active Member
many thanks for the recipe Doug, it is much appreciated.
Bullet lube in general is a rabbit hole topic, with much merit to educate yourself on. I fully admit that it is a topic that I am very weak on. I am in full learn mode now.
 
D

Doug

Member
Well Pb, I'll eventually venture into the PP as you have, once I muster the courage. Still tryin to figure out whether it has any BC advantage for target, etc.
 
Pb2au

Pb2au

Active Member
Doug,
With many things, the journey is equal to, or more often, greater than the destination. PP is very much like that for me. Sure, grease groove bullets work and work really well. PP is something that appeals to the techno-nerd part of me wanting to understand how it works, why it works, and if I can do it.
It is always nice to muse out loud here, and listen to other throw in the benefit of experience. I always learn something, and it helps me along my journey.
 
D

Doug

Member
Well I've scoured the results pages and the equipment surveys, but the bullet type isn't distinguished as PP or GG. Now some experienced BPCR/BPTR competitors have said that the representations are about equal, and some others have gone so far as to claim a better BC for a GG, but not knowing enuf about any of this I'm hard pressed to know the merits either way. When I do tinker w/ PP it'll hopefully be w/ a better overall foundation.
 
9

9.3X62AL

Guest
My own results using paper-patched bullets have been a mixture. My 45-70 results were abhorrent, and I believe that was caused by leade profile not getting along with the paper covering. By that I mean the street-curb-abrupt profile found in the Ruger #1 and Marlin 1895 throat designs.

In the 9.3 x 62 (CZ-550), 303 British (SMLE No. 1 Mk III) and 30-06 (Husq M-98), much mo' bettah. Gently-tapering leade profiles with patched bullets kissing the leade shoot quite well. In the 303 I have run 180 grain pure lead slugs sized .308" and wrapped with 9# airmail paper to .316" at 2100 FPS and sub-2 MOA performance with open irons. VERY deer-capable. With the 9.3, pure-lead #358430s (203 grains) given 2 layers of the 9# shoot to 1800 FPS with excellent accuracy--some 5-shotters run 1.25", and most have held under 2" It is "early days" with some 170 grain pure-lead slugs of unknown origin in the 30-06, but 16.0 grains of 2400 has given them decent grouping at 50 and 100 yards. Slugs mic .301" and look something like some Lyman .301" PP designs from the past, but one never knows with Lyman "poetics". My wool-gathering memory fails to recall from whom I got these test-drive exemplars. If things work out, I'll have a mould made up following its example.
 
Pb2au

Pb2au

Active Member
So,,,,moving forward..
As soon as I get back from Tennesee, I've got a few things to do for the next round of testing.
Make a powder compression die. I've got a notion to make one out of hardwood, with a shoulder to set the overall powder column height. Pics to follow. I'm going to give the goex some compression and see where that leads me.
Lube, I changed tactics. I have a pound of SPG lube now. It enjoys a prosperous reputation of quality, so I decided to benchmark with that rather than make my own.
Changing paper, as well as final diameter wrapped. This will affect my oal, and I'm ok with that.

When I'm settled, I'll report my findings.
 
Ian

Ian

Notorious member
I assume you're going to only use the lube to make a "cookie" under the patched bullet?
 
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