An unpopular bullet that shoots quite well for me

[Rex]

I was given an old Ideal 357446 mould. It is prefixed with the letter "U" meaning it was cut with a worn cherry.
My S&W 686 has very tight cylinder throats and I still have a pretty stiff bullet drag after sizing them .357, my Chinese
micrometer says .3575.
7 grains of Unique in a .357 case with any of the cast bullets that I cast shoots pretty well but the top of the bunch is this
unloved 357446.
Being 76 with fading eyesight and my coffee cup isn't as steady as it used to be, I don't use a small target as most of you do.
I shoot a 6"X6" swing plate at around 20-25 yards. That old 446 will swing it until my arms are tired of holding my shooter.
Anyone else have experience with this mould?

 

[fiver]

someone else was just talking about this mold here somewhere.
there is also a 4 cavity in the S&S section here I have been trying to forget about, it's similar enough to the 477's I already have, but I'm kind of a sucker for 38 cal. molds.
I have 2 or 3 I haven't even shot yet that I've had for a few years.

 

[RicinYakima]

Yes, it was my first .38 mould in 1966. While it was the second design Lyman made for the .357 it was so much better than their first, the #357443, it was always a best seller for the "N" frame S&W's. Shot many thousands of these until I found a four cavity WC I could afford in about 1976. I think the biggest problem was finding one that cast a bullet of the right size you could use.

 

[Rex]

I've never tried the Lyman version but this old Ideal works fine for my tight throated Smith.

 

[Ben]

Many shooters in the past 50 years have said that the 446' would not shoot well unless you pushed it to magnum velocities.

I have not found that to be the case.

It has been my experience that the Lyman 357446 is an accurate bullet from 850 fps - 1,200 fps in my 38 Spec. and 357 Mag. revolvers.

I wonder if today's lube's have made a change in the performance of the 446' for me, allowing me to obtain better performance from the 446' cast bullet ?

Obviously many of us have access to bullet lubes that shooters in 1935 didn't have access to. We also understand more about bullet diameters , throat fit, and alloys than shooters did in that era of time.

Many praise the 358156 Lyman as a great bullet ( I certainly agree with that statement ), you have to admit this bullet looks an awful lot like the 156', it just doesn't have the g/c shank.

 

[KeithB]

Wow, good bullet porn.

 

[Rex]

Those HP bullets sure look nice. I suspect that I could use a bit more tin in my alloy as it takes a lot of heat to get the edges sharp on my bullets. close to 800*.

 

[nicholst55]

I really like the looks of those bullets, Ben! I have a single cavity 357446 mold; we'll see how it survived Hurricane Harvey when I return to the States. If it's serviceable, I plan to send it to Eric at Hollow Point Molds for conversion to a hollow point.

 

[fiver]

Rex if it's an ideal with no vent lines try pressure casting with it.
I have had real good luck just pressure pouring those type of molds and keeping up a swift pace with it.

 

[oscarflytyer]

Fiver - "pressure casting"... Pls define for me. Not sure I know what this method is. Thanx

and, all you dang enablers... making me want one of these... never have too many molds... or guns... or powder... etc... lol!

 

[nicholst55]

Pressure casting is done when you hold the mold sideways and firmly place the spout of your ladle in the sprue plate hole, and turn the mold and ladle to pour.

 

[Ben]

95% of my casting with all my moulds is with this method.
I have a few moulds that will " fin " with this method however.

Ben

 

[Rex]

Pressure pouring does help but I use an electric pot and it does get rather messy. I believe my alloy is probably tin starved somewhat. The alloy is always a bit of a mystery, if it melts I pour. I need to order some tin and mix in, that should help I think.
I do leave the sprue cutter loose enough to flop on its own to help with venting.

 

[358156 hp]

You can also experiment with varying the distance the alloy "drops" from the ladle, to the sprue plate. And the speed at which you pour. Some moulds have rather distinct personalities. They won't tell you what they want, but will definitely tell you what they don't want. Like women...

 

[KHornet]

have a double cav 446, and it shoots well in my revolvers.

Paul

 

[fiver]

when I have something like an older ideal single cavity instead of using a ladle or trying to bottom pour I break out the 10 pound LEE pot and run it about 2/3rds full.
I place the spout right up tight to the mold and hold the handle wide open throughout the whole fill and wait period.
this allows the whole weight of the pot to fill the mold and everything in the pot is the sprue.
with a 2 cavity mold I pressure pour and count 3 then hit the second hole and count 3 then pour a big puddle of alloy on top of the plate to keep everything hot and make it easier to retrieve the sprue.

 

[oscarflytyer]

ok. basically what I do with most of mine and did know what it was after you explained it

 

[fiver]

you can do it with a ladle also using the mate and twist method, it just doesn't have 6 lbs of lead pressure behind it.
I have had to do all kinds of stuff to get some of my molds to fill out consistently.
I think I have used everything from dribbling lead into the cavity's so slow you start losing patience, all the way to shooting the lead right through the sprue hole as fast as possible.

 

[oscarflytyer]

I have one that I DEF need to do this with!

 

[KeithB]

The weight density of lead is .41 lb/cu. inch. Multiply that times the height of the fluid column (measured from the point of interest to the free surface) using compatible units and you can calculate the pressure at that point. If your ladle has 1" of lead in it measured from the free surface to the spout then the pressure at the spout is .41 lb/sq in. If the bullet is .7" long, the pressure at the nose would be (1.7 in x .41 lb/ cu in) about .7 psi. With a 4"-5" tall bottom pour pot you could have a (5 in x .41 ib/cu in) 2+" psi head pressure at the mold.

I believe as a general proposition that "pressure casting" is a valid technique; I have one mold in particular that requires it for consistently good results. I simply don't believe that is one of the advantages of ladle casting. I think the ability to pour more lead (i/.e. heat) quicker with a ladle is it's principal advantage. Any help from head pressure is much smaller compared to what you can get from a bottom pour.

I've always thought that lead pots were designed with a height/weight ratio to minimize heat loss; to maximize head pressure you would want all the height you could get.