Anyone tried the RCBS 44-300 SW in a Ruger GP-100 5 Shot 44 Special ?

[KeithB]

I wasn't trying to be negative with my post. Don't have a .44 GP100 but I do have a Rossi 720. A stainless short barreled five shot .44 Special. Can't imagine shooting 300 gr bullets through it, some 265s I tried were enough. But I admit I'm not a big fan of having my hands hurt and go numb at my age. But hell, it's your bullets, gun, and nervous system so go for it. I've seen 240s at Special velocities clear off bowling pins pretty effectively.

 

[Glaciers]

Well a number of years ago when I was looking for a more serious cartridge handgun combination than the 44 mag for my work in PWS, I went with the 480 Ruger.
I had read a couple of articles about the 480 and the 454. The 480 with 410’s at 1100fps out penetrated the 454 with the 360 grain loading at 1400 fps. The 480 could be loaded hotter but the slight gain in penetration was marginal, but felt recoil was on a steep increase.
Personally never been a fan of the 454 because of the recoil factor. In the article the 480 was considered very controllable when compared to the 454.
My point is there’s a trade off at some point and for me possibility of needing a second shot rapidly was a consideration. I found the recoil of the 480 was very controllable and it addressed my needs. The heavy caliber rifle is preferred but when it’s leaning against a tree…
I’ve been a fan of heavy for caliber slugs since the late 60’s when I recovered from the 60’s with its particular indulgences.
I’ve been loading the 44 mag with 310 SSK J D Jones castings since he first had NEI making molds of his designs.
I’m currently playing with 314 grain and just received a 290 grain 454 that I’m going to be using in the S&W 625 and a newer 22-4 both with AR brass. My goal there was to just crest 800 fps. Not there yet.
I’m going to be trading into a Ruger Red Hawk in 45 Colt / 45 ACP with a 4 and 5/8 barrel. I’m becoming much more interested in the 45 pistol cartridges and kinda moving away from the 44’s. Probably not to far though.
The problem I have with the 44 SSK bullet is it’s too long to cycle in my Browning B92. So for a cure I loaded some in 44 SPL cases. Worked like a charm. They also worked great in my N frames. But, and it’s a big but, I also have CA Bulldog and a Rossi 720. The thought of a hot 310 44 spl finding its way into one of them put an end to that project, well at least in 44 spl cases. Simply seating deeper over the driving band in mag brass works but needs more testing.
I should just set the JD mold aside and buy the RCBS mold. I do have a NOE 280 mold that I actually thought would be about perfect for the 44 but another day.
I am definitely a fan of heavy, wide nose At between 800 and 1100 fps.

 

[Missionary]

I have read an article about the "thin forcing cone" on the GP 100 44 Special. Got our's out and did a close look at it. Reminds me of the Colt New Army in 41 Colt. I have seen those forcing cones "bulged" or swaged open.
So I will go slow with this. May drop down to 650 fps and see how it all goes. I will also "mike" the FC and check it as things progress. First sign of any diameter change I back down.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Oh, yeah--the 200 grainers in 38 S&W and 38 Special are FUN. Lyman #358430 is VERY accurate, I have run that one to 1350 FPS in my Bisley Blackhawk 357.

 

[CZ93X62]

I wanted to make #358430 work in my Webley-Enfield and S&W 38/200 Lend-Lease revolver, but I couldn't 'Cheat' them out big enough to fit in the .363" throats of those critters. 'Beagling' can only get you just so far.

There is a lot of 'Cross-over' in tooling and dimensioning between the 38/200 and 9mm Makarov.

 

[Jeff H]

I wasn't trying to be negative with my post. Don't have a .44 GP100 but I do have a Rossi 720. A stainless short barreled five shot .44 Special. Can't imagine shooting 300 gr bullets through it, some 265s I tried were enough. But I admit I'm not a big fan of having my hands hurt and go numb at my age. But hell, it's your bullets, gun, and nervous system so go for it. I've seen 240s at Special velocities clear off bowling pins pretty effectively.

Oh, I get it!

You know those 300s and 310s I mentioned shooting in the OM SBH? Easy-shooting, when I was in the groove and shooting a lot more. OK, and a lot younger. They were pleasurable to shoot.

Now, do you think I'd shoot those out of the Marlin 94 in 44 Mag I had at the same time? NO WAY!

I don't know how many times I've read of people who either have no idea or no nerve function in their limbs, that magnum handgun loads are/should be really "tame" in a carbine or rifle. Not in my experience. Full-house 44 Mag loads, using 240 grain bullets from that Marlin were not fun for me, but those were easy to shoot without pain in the SBH. Maybe I'm a sissy, but the bad discs in my neck mean business when it come time for a rebuke for being stupid and then they nag for two weeks.

I did not take it negatively myself and think it was a perfectly appropriate query. Question everything, bounce it off something empirical, compare, ruminate, digest. Everything needs a thorough vetting even when we ultimately decide to just do it and find out.

300 grains at 800 fps? Yeah, it'll work, regardless of the fact that there are more optimal combinations of mass and velocity, but what the heck, try it. It's always amazed me at how everything I ever tried in the 44 Special shot well, so anything's worth a try, even if for shirts-'n'-gurgles.

 

[Jeff H]

...
The problem I have with the 44 SSK bullet is it’s too long to cycle in my Browning B92...

Michael Reamy's (Ranch Dog Outdooors) 265 grain RFN loads to a length which will cycle through 92 and Marlin 94s. He designed most of these bullets FOR Marlin levers. I've shot it in the 44 Special, but stuff ith the 429421 for versatility and accuracy. BUT, Michael also had a 300 (or so) grain 44 bullet, which someone is probably copying. His bullets have a generous meplat and cycle through levers.

 

[Winelover]

Two things stopped me from purchasing a GP100 chambered in 44 Special. The weight and quality control issues, around the same time. Same goes for the S&W Model 69............as a result, I opted for the Bulldog.

 

[RBHarter]

I worked a 350 for the 45 Colts Ranch Dog ran numbers and I had data suitable at that point to hold under 20kpsi . Keeping in mind I had only an RBH and 92' suitable for 44 mag and 454 . The start load went 1240 fps in the 16" carb , it was too fast and too long the remaining 15 were launched from the 7.5" BH at a balmy 625 fps MV and quite mild .

 

[Bret4207]

Oh, I get it!

You know those 300s and 310s I mentioned shooting in the OM SBH? Easy-shooting, when I was in the groove and shooting a lot more. OK, and a lot younger. They were pleasurable to shoot.

Now, do you think I'd shoot those out of the Marlin 94 in 44 Mag I had at the same time? NO WAY!

I don't know how many times I've read of people who either have no idea or no nerve function in their limbs, that magnum handgun loads are/should be really "tame" in a carbine or rifle. Not in my experience. Full-house 44 Mag loads, using 240 grain bullets from that Marlin were not fun for me, but those were easy to shoot without pain in the SBH. Maybe I'm a sissy, but the bad discs in my neck mean business when it come time for a rebuke for being stupid and then they nag for two weeks.

I did not take it negatively myself and think it was a perfectly appropriate query. Question everything, bounce it off something empirical, compare, ruminate, digest. Everything needs a thorough vetting even when we ultimately decide to just do it and find out.

300 grains at 800 fps? Yeah, it'll work, regardless of the fact that there are more optimal combinations of mass and velocity, but what the heck, try it. It's always amazed me at how everything I ever tried in the 44 Special shot well, so anything's worth a try, even if for shirts-'n'-gurgles.

Same for me! I've yet to run into a handgun that hurt anything like firing some full power loads in a light rifle like a 44 Mag in a 92 Win clone. IMO there's a lot more shock absorption in my hands and arms than in my shoulder!

 

[Missionary]

The worse effect any handgun had on me was the nasty big bore mag some feller touched off on the next bench. That barrel had a "break" on it and it near broke my desire to be a gentleman shooter.

 

[RBHarter]

Worst whooping I ever took was from a 410 about 4" too short and ended up about 2" off my shoulder when the hammer dropped.........

That 1240 fps 350 gr made me just go ahead and get the 45-70 . It wasn't that the recoil was so bad as much as the steel butt plate digging in .

 

[Petrol & Powder]

Just the ramblings of a bystander here:

I’ve never been a fan of either heavy for caliber or light for caliber bullets. There’s no free lunch in physics. With all else equal such as, pressure, length of time to accelerate the projectile (barrel length), friction (jacketed or lead bullet); all you’re doing is trading mass for velocity OR velocity for mass.

While there may be changes in terminal ballistics (how the projectile behaves when it enters whatever it penetrates), there are a lot of trade-offs before it gets there. (accuracy, recoil, forces on the gun, trajectory, etc.)

With a 44 magnum and a 300-grain bullet you would probably have enough cylinder length and case capacity to maybe get something useful within the acceptable pressure limits in a handgun, …maybe. With a 44 SPECIAL casing, I’m not convinced the exercise will yield anything other than a very slow bullet, even if you go above the acceptable pressures a bit.

To ME,….. (YMMV, just rambling here) …it seems like folly to go that heavy.

 

[Winelover]

^^^^^Pretty much my thoughts. also.

 

[Missionary]

And if all you have access to is one mold (as soon as it arrives), one revolver (because it was packed in the home defense box) guess what choice I make. So I shall folly forth and enjoy encouraging moments dropping a hammer on a load that is not perfect but available.

Reminds me of an episode in tank commander school. The E-7 Sarge had waxed eloquent for 20 some minutes explaining the virtues of the different main gun rounds. One future TC piped up asking, "Well what if you only have a none penetrating round like high explosive left in the ammo rack" ? The ol Sarge quickly replied, " you shoot that HE as fast as you can till that target is blown to pieces and burns like a volcano".

 

[RBHarter]

If one has a target energy required or desired or a need to "use all of the twist" heavy is often the only way to get there with cast .

Stepping away from the specific case a step . I wanted groups at 100 yd and at twice the worth of the PCC barreling just wasn't the answer if I were to keep it as a suitable hunting tool also . Maxing out the weight/length that would continue to make round holes sub sonic was the only solution because the twist rate simply wasn't sufficient to keep the bullet stable coming back down .

Don't go super , don't need more twist , gain weight retain more target energy. At some point in every cal always way past pistol speed you begin to get free BC as the arrow/spear deal takes hold.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Two things stopped me from purchasing a GP100 chambered in 44 Special. The weight and quality control issues, around the same time. Same goes for the S&W Model 69............as a result, I opted for the Bulldog.

I traded my Bulldog for a 69 the day I shot ine and NEVER LOOKED BACK! That Smith was twice the Bulldog hoped to ever simulate.

I havent owned a GP100 but shot a few and I would have loved a 5" 44 Spl Commemorative Jeff Quinn gun. But not working limits such things.

I picked up that 265 Ranch Dog 44 mold short
Time back. Happy ta send some if ya want to try them.

CW

 

[Glaciers]

Well there are different reasons for heavy or light bullets in a given caliber, most of which have been touched on here.
Michael hits a home run with the only gun and only mold.
Personally I want a heavy bullet for a couple of reasons. Anything I am going to need the heavy load is going to be 10 or 15 feet away and possibly coming fast. So I want my guns to have a large flat point and soft in revolvers about 8 or 9 hardness. Rifles they will be harder but lots of veritably there. But speaking of handguns take my 480, which is not used here or needed, but 480 at 1100 will penetrate an elephant. Around here concerns are smaller but still a problem that usually come knocking very very early in a morning. I lean towards heavy for caliber in any gun I have, BUT, I also have light bullets molds for all calibers, well most. While my first idea is get the heavier slugs figured out, I also have a new NOE 180 grain 44 my Rossi 720 and the CA. Not sure if it will work very good in the CA. I also have a Lee 200 RF that Eric has preformed his hollow point magic on. Plus probably 4 or 5 weights in between 180 and 310. So heavy is the goal but heavy and fast isn’t. To many things can start to go wrong on the upper end of velocity.
Same thing with my 45 AR 625 and the 1950 we-4, Lee 160 on the light side NOE 314 on the other end. As far as heavies for the fixed sights yes they won’t shoot to the sights, but at 10 feet I not to concerned. Past that distance it can start being a problem.
Shot a wounded cow moose once at close range, sometimes very close with my CA 44 Bulldog. I had hit her and broke her back leg. She went into the brush about 50 feet from the road. I followed in with some of the snow being well over my knees. Could not move well at all. All I had was the Bulldog with Federal 200 grain soft HP’s. Hard to get it done with a flashlight and and angry moose. The Federal ammo was for social work, I don’t carry the special in the summer I switch to the mag with 310’s.
But any solid point and more weight would have been helpful in the Special.

 

[Winelover]

I traded my Bulldog for a 69 the day I shot ine and NEVER LOOKED BACK! That Smith was twice the Bulldog hoped to ever simulate.

I havent owned a GP100 but shot a few and I would have loved a 5" 44 Spl Commemorative Jeff Quinn gun. But not working limits such things.

I picked up that 265 Ranch Dog 44 mold short
Time back. Happy ta send some if ya want to try them.

CW

Thanks, but I have the NOE cloned version of RD 265 RNFP with traditional lube grooves and GC. Use to use it in the Marlin, till I purchased the MP 250 RNFP with three pin (solid, conic and HP) option. The MP has a larger meplat, plus hollow point versatility.

I have shot the 265 RNFP in the 2.50" DAO Bulldog with both W-231 and Alliant 2400 and chronographed the loads with LabRadar.

5.5 grains of W-231 yields 728 fps..........practice load

13.0 grains of 2400 yields 828 fps...........carry load, while bowhunting.

That Smith was twice the Bulldog hoped to ever simulate. I'm sure it is, especially the weight. Strictly a belt holster piece. IMO. Try carrying that in your pocket. Not my cup of tea. Bulldog fits nicely in the cargo pocket of my hunting pants, in a DeSantis Nemesis pocket holster. Hardly, know its there.

 

[Glaciers]

I had a S&W model 69 and it was a nice gun. I bought it with the idea of replacing my 4 inch model 29 that I’m very familiar with and like, but smaller lighter, with the same punch would nice. The 4” 69 is only about 5 ounces lighter and almost impossible to tell if it’s smaller as my model 29 I had turned into a round butt many years ago. So I stayed with the blue 6 shot 29 and sold the 5 shot stainless model 69. But the 69 was a nice gun.
I regret sell my 2 Lew Horton 44 specials one 3” and one 4”. Those model 29’s were awesome.