Beretta 92FS & cast bullets?
- Thread starter ChestnutLouie
- Start date
CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
What P&P said.
I've owned 2 Beretta 92-series pistols and 1 96-series pistol. The 96 was my last uniform duty pistol. They are excellent pistols in all respects, a little large for the calibers they chamber but are likely (to most people's eyes) the most beautifully-designed of the world's service pistols. They are elegant. The Italians build beautiful things.
I've owned 2 Beretta 92-series pistols and 1 96-series pistol. The 96 was my last uniform duty pistol. They are excellent pistols in all respects, a little large for the calibers they chamber but are likely (to most people's eyes) the most beautifully-designed of the world's service pistols. They are elegant. The Italians build beautiful things.
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
I consider the Beretta 92 series to be the pinnacle of "Old School" design when it comes to full size DA/SA service pistols.
When you take a moment to really examine a Beretta 92, you will see a lot of older engineering and old school manufacturing style.
Other than maybe the grips, there's no plastic. The frame is aluminum and very intricately machined. Many of the small parts are forged steel and finely machined. There are a lot of parts but there are no cheap parts. The machining that goes into the slide & barrel is skillfully executed. The steel used is high quality. Even things like grip screws and tiny springs are made with high precision.
Yeah, they're a bit large and they're probably a bit more complex than necessary; but they absolutely work.
The 92FS is the culmination of a LOT of evolution.
Shortly after WWII, Beretta introduced the model 1951. That was a single action, single stack mag, full sized pistol chambered in 9mm. It was fairly pedestrian by today's standards but it contained a lot of the DNA of the later 92 series. In the model 1951 we see the familiar Beretta open top slide (a carry over from earlier Berettas), the Walther style locking block and the basic layout of what later becomes the 92.
In the mid 1970's Beretta introduced the 92 and we see an aluminum frame capable of holding a double stack magazine. We also see a DA/SA system.
We then see a series of incremental developments. Magazine release moved to the American position, a passive firing pin block, changes to the safety, tweaks to the style of the grip, hard chrome lined barrel,...... but the basic DNA remains - open top slide, tilting locking block, hammer fired, DA/SA trigger.
I suspect the Beretta 92 series will be the last of the Old School style service pistols. At least on a large production scale.
When you take a moment to really examine a Beretta 92, you will see a lot of older engineering and old school manufacturing style.
Other than maybe the grips, there's no plastic. The frame is aluminum and very intricately machined. Many of the small parts are forged steel and finely machined. There are a lot of parts but there are no cheap parts. The machining that goes into the slide & barrel is skillfully executed. The steel used is high quality. Even things like grip screws and tiny springs are made with high precision.
Yeah, they're a bit large and they're probably a bit more complex than necessary; but they absolutely work.
The 92FS is the culmination of a LOT of evolution.
Shortly after WWII, Beretta introduced the model 1951. That was a single action, single stack mag, full sized pistol chambered in 9mm. It was fairly pedestrian by today's standards but it contained a lot of the DNA of the later 92 series. In the model 1951 we see the familiar Beretta open top slide (a carry over from earlier Berettas), the Walther style locking block and the basic layout of what later becomes the 92.
In the mid 1970's Beretta introduced the 92 and we see an aluminum frame capable of holding a double stack magazine. We also see a DA/SA system.
We then see a series of incremental developments. Magazine release moved to the American position, a passive firing pin block, changes to the safety, tweaks to the style of the grip, hard chrome lined barrel,...... but the basic DNA remains - open top slide, tilting locking block, hammer fired, DA/SA trigger.
I suspect the Beretta 92 series will be the last of the Old School style service pistols. At least on a large production scale.
ChestnutLouie
Active Member
Wow, lots of stuff that I did not know.
Thanks
Francis
Thanks
Francis
ChestnutLouie
Active Member
I bought the gun and have a couple of hundred rounds thru it. First impressions:
Nice trigger, da/sa is different than my other guns but I’m used to it and the size and weight makes for mild recoil.
cast bullets ( Lee 125g RN ) come out of my .356 sizer at .3565”
And the lead up the barrel! Even though I water quench the hardness is 13.5 using wheel weight alloy that I buy from a guy ( are there a lot of stick on weights and that’s why they don’t water quench harden)
Yesterday I cast some Lyman #2 alloy that I purchased from an online source, and they water quenched to 16.8 bhn. I will alox coat and test shoot.
If you are wondering why I don’t just powder coat it’s because I’ve been having problems getting a smooth finish resulting in inconsistent seating depths.
I dumped out my quenching bucket and scrubbed it with detergent. I may even try a quick acetone bath for my next 9mm powder coat attempt.
Next step——-
Try sizing to .357” with the Lyman #2 alloy
thanks
Francis
Nice trigger, da/sa is different than my other guns but I’m used to it and the size and weight makes for mild recoil.
cast bullets ( Lee 125g RN ) come out of my .356 sizer at .3565”
And the lead up the barrel! Even though I water quench the hardness is 13.5 using wheel weight alloy that I buy from a guy ( are there a lot of stick on weights and that’s why they don’t water quench harden)
Yesterday I cast some Lyman #2 alloy that I purchased from an online source, and they water quenched to 16.8 bhn. I will alox coat and test shoot.
If you are wondering why I don’t just powder coat it’s because I’ve been having problems getting a smooth finish resulting in inconsistent seating depths.
I dumped out my quenching bucket and scrubbed it with detergent. I may even try a quick acetone bath for my next 9mm powder coat attempt.
Next step——-
Try sizing to .357” with the Lyman #2 alloy
thanks
Francis
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
At first glance I would say the hardness is not the factor contributing to the leading. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that sizing to .357" is probably going to yield better results than going with a harder alloy.
I can't speak to tumble lube with Alox.
I can't speak to tumble lube with Alox.
ChestnutLouie
Active Member
For a test, I tumble lubed 60 rounds and sized to .357”. I also powder coated 60 more rounds ( I gave these a acetone bath and the powder coverage was MUCH improved) these were also sized.357”.
next trip to the range I will bring my cleaning kit and shoot the tumble lube bullets first then clean (check for leading) and then shoot the powder coated bullets.
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
Based on personal experience, I wouldn't be surprised if .357" worked in a Beretta 92.
ChestnutLouie
Active Member
Could.358” be to “fat” for my wife’s Kimber micro 9?
fiver
Well-Known Member
mmmm?
might,, I know some of the newer guns have finally caught on to a bit tighter chamber being a help to accuracy.
my Para double stack 1911 is fine with 358 as is my CZ, the Norinco's, the Canik,,, both of whatever it is the BIL's shoot, my hi-point carbine, the Taurus I had.
might,, I know some of the newer guns have finally caught on to a bit tighter chamber being a help to accuracy.
my Para double stack 1911 is fine with 358 as is my CZ, the Norinco's, the Canik,,, both of whatever it is the BIL's shoot, my hi-point carbine, the Taurus I had.
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
Impossible to say without the gun in hand.
I recommend trying .357" diameter in that Beretta 92 before jumping up to .358". If you're currently sizing to .356" (or .3565") for that Kimber and want a common bullet for the Kimber and the Beretta, I think I would try .357" and see if that works in both.
I've yet to see a Beretta 92 that wouldn't feed and function with a 115-125 grain bullet seated in a cartridge that sort of looked like it was close the 9 X 19mm SAAMI dimensions. The Beretta 92 is pretty tolerant. I think the Kimber will be the fussier of the two when it comes to fat bullets.
If there was ever a caliber that's all over the map in terms of barrel and throat dimensions - it's the 9mm Luger. I think you could measure 10 different barrels from 10 different manufacturers and come up with 10 different combinations of groove and bore diameters.
ChestnutLouie
Active Member
In the next day or two I will experiment with .357” in my gun (shooting and looking for leading)
I will remove the barrel from my wife’s Kimber and plunk test both alox tumble lube and powder coat.
if worst comes to worse I suppose she could pick her favorite color and I could make ammo for her gun. I prefer to standardize.
Thanks
Francis
I will remove the barrel from my wife’s Kimber and plunk test both alox tumble lube and powder coat.
if worst comes to worse I suppose she could pick her favorite color and I could make ammo for her gun. I prefer to standardize.
Thanks
Francis
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
I'm ALL about simple logistics.
fiver
Well-Known Member
I think your on a good track there Francis.
I've been known to make up bulk ammo for everything and do small [4-500rd.] batches for that one gun that doesn't cooperate with the plan.
but with only 2 guns to work with and the ability to powder coat I think you'll find a happy medium.
I've been known to make up bulk ammo for everything and do small [4-500rd.] batches for that one gun that doesn't cooperate with the plan.
but with only 2 guns to work with and the ability to powder coat I think you'll find a happy medium.
ChestnutLouie
Active Member
I shot 45 rounds out of the Baretta today. 16.8bhn, alox tumble lube and sized .357”. Over 4.0 grains of Alliant Sport Pistol powder. Mild recoil, consistent velocity (1050fps).
And lead in the barrel. Easy to remove from the Baretta and a pain to remove from my wife’s Kimber???
Next — .357” powder coat
And lead in the barrel. Easy to remove from the Baretta and a pain to remove from my wife’s Kimber???
Next — .357” powder coat