Crimp die

Missionary

Well-Known Member
Greetings
I do dream about one day having a place to install a lathe and a mill. Happily have a very kind shooter who lets me into his shop and it only costs friendly time talking about shooting single shots.
Mike in Peru
 

JSH

Active Member
I was at grizzly tool in Springfield last weekend. Got the wheels to turning once again. I looked a couple of bench top lathes aka mini. You guys have any input? Biggest thing I would be after to make would be lube dies. Maybe and a big maybe would be some die parts.
If I were to not crowd one of the minis would it do a good job?
Tooling is the other thing. I didn't know if there was a difference in that. Buddy of mine is down around Lamar and said he would come over and look them over.
Jeff
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
I think it comes down to understanding the limitations of the machine. Know that a smaller machine won't have the power to take large cuts meaning many smaller cuts. You sacrifice time for money.
I got the lathe I did because my wife told me she didn't want to hear me say after a couple years I wish I had something bigger. I listened.

Tooling can get expensive in a hurry. I really like HSS and I grind them into what I need. A smaller lather like a bench top lacks the power to really get the most from carbide tooling.

Look at the hobby machinist forum. Lots of good info there for guys who own smaller machines. I have learned a bunch from them.
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
Ok, I meant vertically fixed tab;e, where the z-axis motion comes from moving the head assy down, not moving the table up,
not considering the quill. Of course you have to have the x and y motion of the table. As I understand the definition,
the Bridgeport and my Benchmaster are knee mills, where you raise the table to change the z axis location of the work. It looks
like in that one that Brad is looking at, you lower the head to accomplish the same relative motion of the cutter.

Not sure I see why it would be a pain to do that heat sink with a knee mill. Just repetitive parallel cuts, why would one
way of moving the head in the z axis make this easier than another? Make a long y-axis cut, move the table or head to the next
z location and make another long y axis cut. Having never made something like that, I guess I am just not understanding you.

I have no doubt that you are correct, but do not quite see why. Not trying to be a pain, really curious.

Bill
 

smokeywolf

Well-Known Member
Rigidity is a major issue when using a milling cutter. Because the universal mill has no quill, the spindle is far more rigid. Also, the spindle is not driven by belt, but by gear, which reduces chatter. Oft times you can get away with a smaller diameter milling cutter on a horizontal milling setup than on a knee mill.

Five machines I could have taken with me, but couldn't because of lack of space; a Van Norman Universal mill, a Rivett Cylindrical grinder, a Gorton Pantograph, a wet surface grinder (don't remember the make) (2330 1, Apr., just remembered, K.O. Lee surface grinder) and a Rockwell hardness tester.
 
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Pistolero

Well-Known Member
OK, I looked up the Van Norman Universal mill, and that is a real nice looking machine. Seems very
useful to be able to change from horizontal to vertical cutter axis. It also looks REALLY rigid.

I have seen horizontal mills, but never quite understood the need for a horizontal mill. Why is having the axis in
one direction superior? Seems like I can pretty much do all the same work by using a right angle mount to hold
the part sideways or a different cutter to make the cut. One thing that come to mind is that with the VNorman, you
can avoid having to break down your setup and move a large workpiece around, just reset the machine when a
cut needs to be made on a side. I think about small work, too. Setting up a large workpiece
on it's side, clamped to a right angle mount would be very much less convenient, and, as I
think about it, probably less rigid, too - so no heavy cuts.

I guess until you sit down and actually try to make a part, you won't necessarily see the problems making
some cuts with some machines. I'm still a beginner, making simple parts, and slowly. And I think speed is something
else us amateurs almost totally forget about. In production, speed is really important, where in a hobby machine,
not so much. Being able to really hog off material is of real value in high volume production where how many parts
you have in the bin at the end of the day is the name of the game. I'm just tickled if I can make one part without
screwing it up!

Bill
 
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Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
I agree on speed for a hobbyist. I'm not paying myself so my labor is free. Hell, I spend 2 hours making a Star die at times and I'm happy. Wouldn't make a living that way but I have no plans to sell anything

I am willing to trade time for expense.
 

smokeywolf

Well-Known Member
Bill, this is the biggest advantage to be had from a horizontal milling machine...
HorizontalMilling.jpg
You can gang up several cutters in order to mill a shape in just a few passes.
As you might guess, rigidity is far greater than that which is offered by a toolmaker's mill.

Universal mills are kind of a cross between a toolmaker's mill and a horizontal.
When I machined that heat-sink I had 2 matched cutters making slots.
 
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JSH

Active Member
I agree on speed for a hobbyist. I'm not paying myself so my labor is free. Hell, I spend 2 hours making a Star die at times and I'm happy. Wouldn't make a living that way but I have no plans to sell anything

I am willing to trade time for expense.
Lol I figure that will be 3-4 times faster than I could make one.
There are a few things that I have asked about over the years that a mini should cover. Most of it NOE offers now. I have a few more ideas that have come to mind that I have kept to myself. For under $1000 I figure I can prove my thoughts right or wrong. I have spent way more on a lot less.
I look forward to learning a lot more from threads like this.
Jeff
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
Yes, that double support will increase rigidity a LOT, allowing greater material removal
with each pass, assuming enough horsepower to drive it.

I can see that in production you could really make a gigantic difference this way in speed.
Like to make a mold block blank, say line up 4 ot 5 in a row, then mill three sides in one setup,
a few passes.

Thanks for the education.

Bill