CW's favorite handgun
- Thread starter Tomme boy
- Start date
Winelover
North Central Arkansas
Yep................it starts to get left at home, cause it's too heavy to tote around from sunup till bedtime.The 45 starts where the nine ends.
CWLONGSHOT
Well-Known Member
Dont read me wrong. 45 acp is king for many reasons.
But tossing that "years of use" has ZERO to so with what a cartridge can do.
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Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
There's nothing "WRONG" with the 40 S&W.
However, about 30+ years ago the 40 S&W got a bit over-hyped. I blame the post Miami shootout testing by the FBI for placing the cartridge on the proverbial pedestal.
After a cooling off period, reality is starting to finally overcome the hype. It is entirely possible to evaluate one item in a group without disparaging the other items you are comparing it with.
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
I don't know that "Proved" would be the appropriate term. Perhaps demonstrated once, would be a better way to state that.
CWLONGSHOT
Well-Known Member
As the 9mm boys like to proclaim. Bullet "advances" make the 9mm far better then it has been previously. Well as many others say, those "advances" do not only benefit the 9mm.
Even the lil 380 enjoys them! Lehigh Defense has designed a few projectiles that help all calibers with there fluid technology Extreme Defense and Extreme Penetrator.
CW
Even the lil 380 enjoys them! Lehigh Defense has designed a few projectiles that help all calibers with there fluid technology Extreme Defense and Extreme Penetrator.
CW
RBHarter
West Central AR
We have officially side stepped the how little cartridge is enough for deer and officially applied the arguments to SD pistols .
The 25 ACP is all but a complete waste of space but Maine says its a deer cartridge.
The 380 is horrible but it's almost twice what the 25 ACP is .
How come nobody bags on the 9×18 ?
Where's the FN 5.7 fit ?
Bigger is better how come there's no 3 shooter Governor in 460 ?
If the 45 is great the 50 AE and 500 should be even better and it makes twice the hole well actually 4x the hole of the 25.
9/45 double the std bullet weight , half the magazine capacity, a 1/3 larger dia hole . About equal tissue disruption .
40 about half way in between so if the 9/38 is ok and the 14-23 kpsi 45s are great the 40 must be at least good .
The 25 ACP is all but a complete waste of space but Maine says its a deer cartridge.
The 380 is horrible but it's almost twice what the 25 ACP is .
How come nobody bags on the 9×18 ?
Where's the FN 5.7 fit ?
Bigger is better how come there's no 3 shooter Governor in 460 ?
If the 45 is great the 50 AE and 500 should be even better and it makes twice the hole well actually 4x the hole of the 25.
9/45 double the std bullet weight , half the magazine capacity, a 1/3 larger dia hole . About equal tissue disruption .
40 about half way in between so if the 9/38 is ok and the 14-23 kpsi 45s are great the 40 must be at least good .
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
Back when small, locked breach, DA, 9mm pistols were non-existent, small DA pistols chambered in 380 Auto were about the only option in that arena.
The 380 Auto and the 9 x 18 Makarov are about the maximum power level compatible with a small, simple blowback operating system. This fact made the 380 Auto a popular choice.
Now that small, locked breach, DA pistols that are no larger than the old 380 pistols can be had in 9mm Luger, 40 S&W and 45 ACP, the simple blowback pistols have lost that market.
The 380 Auto’s claim to fame was not that it was a great cartridge (it leaves a bit to be desired) but rather its appeal was based on the pistols that it could be chambered in.
The world has changed and small, locked beach, DA, lightweight, very compact piatols are now available chambered in cartridges such as 9mm Luger, 40 S&W and 45 ACP. This was NOT the case 30 + years ago.
The 380 Auto and the 9 x 18 Makarov are about the maximum power level compatible with a small, simple blowback operating system. This fact made the 380 Auto a popular choice.
Now that small, locked breach, DA pistols that are no larger than the old 380 pistols can be had in 9mm Luger, 40 S&W and 45 ACP, the simple blowback pistols have lost that market.
The 380 Auto’s claim to fame was not that it was a great cartridge (it leaves a bit to be desired) but rather its appeal was based on the pistols that it could be chambered in.
The world has changed and small, locked beach, DA, lightweight, very compact piatols are now available chambered in cartridges such as 9mm Luger, 40 S&W and 45 ACP. This was NOT the case 30 + years ago.
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
Never confuse LAW with LOGIC or common sense.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups, and that includes legislative bodies.
When a bunch of elected legislators are too ignorant to know the difference between Caliber and Cartridge, you get laws that set minimum Caliber requirements for some types of hunting instead of minimum Cartridge requirements.
I think most educated people would agree that .25-06 would be suitable for deer hunting and 25 ACP would not be a good choice for deer hunting. But both are technically at least 25 Caliber.
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CWLONGSHOT
Well-Known Member
Then we have the 30 SUPAH DUPA!
The idea of self defense is not to shoot thru the bad guy, thru your living wall, go across the street thru the neighbors wall and shoot another bad guy hiding behind the refrigerator.
Tomme boy
Well-Known Member
I have used all sorts of pistols to dispatch wounded deer over the years. 40 is not one of them. I have had 3 instances that I used a 45 to put down a deer. These were with 185gr +P HP rounds. One deer I had 7 rounds into her before I had to put it in the brain. She would not stop trying to get away.
None of them I have used had to have more than 2 shots. The best being a 357 mag with 125gr HP. After seeing what the all mighty 45 could do I have not used it ever again. I believed all the tall tails of how good it was. But guess what? It is not as good as a lot of other cal. It all goes back to the WW2 propaganda videos saying how much better everything we had was better than the rest of the worlds. The one that made me laugh was the 9mm vs 45 shooting a steel helmet. The 9mm went right through. The 45 dented it and that was supposed to be better
None of them I have used had to have more than 2 shots. The best being a 357 mag with 125gr HP. After seeing what the all mighty 45 could do I have not used it ever again. I believed all the tall tails of how good it was. But guess what? It is not as good as a lot of other cal. It all goes back to the WW2 propaganda videos saying how much better everything we had was better than the rest of the worlds. The one that made me laugh was the 9mm vs 45 shooting a steel helmet. The 9mm went right through. The 45 dented it and that was supposed to be better
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
And even that little Star wasn't a double action pistol.
The world has changed and I agree, Life is good.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
The same test could be run with other cartridges, including the 9, and the same results could be obtained. You should probably be carrying a 44 at least if attacks by Eskimos are a concern.
This thread has deteriorated into a "blonde, brunet or redhead" discussion. Fact is I'd rather have a 22 on hand than a 12ga left at home. Advertising hype doesn't win gunfights, and the vast majority of us will never need to even display a gun, much less fire it in self defense. So, use what you feel comfortable with. To each their own.
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RBHarter
West Central AR
The idea there in my post was that this has reached a point of ......." Provides the highest rate of crippling effect" as quoted from a box of steel shot , "shot placement is more important than what it's shot with " , with "we're arguing degrees of dead" .
I've noted here that 2 holes in a bad guy gushing fluids is undesirable while when applied to a game animal is the preferred. When we apply logic here a dangerous predator intent on depriving one of life or possessions by violence I don't see where dump all the energy in the target discourse logically defeats the 2 holes when both are viable standards for the ethical clean harvest of game . Yet here we are with devoted 2 holes guys using the over penetration argument.
A gushing exit hole means the projectile was too much of a good thing and had a substantial amount of KO , energy , whatever left .
I would say you don't have to poke a hole in it if everything is broken and or leaking inside .
I would also say if you poke 1 hole in it and everything inside is leaking or shock jellied you don't need a second hole .
I also agree that 2 holes in a 12# snow shoe hare , 400# Mulie , or 250# whitetail might not be worth tinkers darn with a 200# hog boar slathered in mud .
Now it's all about not how deep/wide the hole/s are but how they are made .
Just like that now we're off into the pits of shape , structure, alloy , retention, fracture, shed , complete break up or partial, if it sheds and makes more projectiles how many should it make and how much of the base should remain, is tumble more effective straight line . More than that , do you plan for the 6'7" roid raging mall nija in ceramic kevlar and hope if it happens it's a 90# 5'5' hoodie punk ? There are 1000s of reports of not just drug amped up but those dedicated to raw mayhem and destruction that have taken dozens of hits in the core and just kept going some with significant disruption of the grey matter .
I don't know any definitive answer .
I do know a 900-1000 fps 250 gr SWC will plow right though 3' of hog and break 3-5 ribs or 18-22" break 3-4 ribs and render the off side shoulder joint useless . It will do that through an inch of cartilage and 1/4" of Texas wallow mud .
A similar 230 about 900 fps aught to be equally harmful through the typical leather or denim quilted jacket .
I have no idea what a heavy wool shearling coat or a "P" coat with a couple of M65 liners in it would impede or stop but it's GI issue for winter duty so I would imagine that it would be of some value in that role .
A heavy winter coat is a sweeping definition. There's a world of difference between a nominal -10-+15° wool and shearling ,over poly thermals , heavy tee , and a lined flannel shirt vs a tee , sweat shirt and a down filled coat . That down coat while a great set up for a nasty infection isn't stopping much , 4ftlb on a .175 steel BB goes right through 6" of late season goose breast bone and down . It didn't do a November coyote any good either .
The 60ftlb of a 25acp or 22 mag isn't going tickle .
My examples are based on a dozen hogs , 1 coyote that shouldn't have stalked my decoys , and several dozen wild fowl , honkers , snows , and white fronts from all angles and a dozen or so Mulies .
I've noted here that 2 holes in a bad guy gushing fluids is undesirable while when applied to a game animal is the preferred. When we apply logic here a dangerous predator intent on depriving one of life or possessions by violence I don't see where dump all the energy in the target discourse logically defeats the 2 holes when both are viable standards for the ethical clean harvest of game . Yet here we are with devoted 2 holes guys using the over penetration argument.
A gushing exit hole means the projectile was too much of a good thing and had a substantial amount of KO , energy , whatever left .
I would say you don't have to poke a hole in it if everything is broken and or leaking inside .
I would also say if you poke 1 hole in it and everything inside is leaking or shock jellied you don't need a second hole .
I also agree that 2 holes in a 12# snow shoe hare , 400# Mulie , or 250# whitetail might not be worth tinkers darn with a 200# hog boar slathered in mud .
Now it's all about not how deep/wide the hole/s are but how they are made .
Just like that now we're off into the pits of shape , structure, alloy , retention, fracture, shed , complete break up or partial, if it sheds and makes more projectiles how many should it make and how much of the base should remain, is tumble more effective straight line . More than that , do you plan for the 6'7" roid raging mall nija in ceramic kevlar and hope if it happens it's a 90# 5'5' hoodie punk ? There are 1000s of reports of not just drug amped up but those dedicated to raw mayhem and destruction that have taken dozens of hits in the core and just kept going some with significant disruption of the grey matter .
I don't know any definitive answer .
I do know a 900-1000 fps 250 gr SWC will plow right though 3' of hog and break 3-5 ribs or 18-22" break 3-4 ribs and render the off side shoulder joint useless . It will do that through an inch of cartilage and 1/4" of Texas wallow mud .
A similar 230 about 900 fps aught to be equally harmful through the typical leather or denim quilted jacket .
I have no idea what a heavy wool shearling coat or a "P" coat with a couple of M65 liners in it would impede or stop but it's GI issue for winter duty so I would imagine that it would be of some value in that role .
A heavy winter coat is a sweeping definition. There's a world of difference between a nominal -10-+15° wool and shearling ,over poly thermals , heavy tee , and a lined flannel shirt vs a tee , sweat shirt and a down filled coat . That down coat while a great set up for a nasty infection isn't stopping much , 4ftlb on a .175 steel BB goes right through 6" of late season goose breast bone and down . It didn't do a November coyote any good either .
The 60ftlb of a 25acp or 22 mag isn't going tickle .
My examples are based on a dozen hogs , 1 coyote that shouldn't have stalked my decoys , and several dozen wild fowl , honkers , snows , and white fronts from all angles and a dozen or so Mulies .