Help me with my cast bullets, please.

[Rick]

If you don't scrape the bottom with your stick, you won't get junk trapped in the alloy. The finings will make their way to the top eventually.

I can't wrap my mind around the concept. Scraping the bottom and charred wood will get trapped in the melt, only scrape the sides and it will make it's way to the surface. Eventually. Much of it will get to the surface but lead is easily dense enough to hold particles in suspension. How much of it is acceptable?

Some state that they won't flux with sawdust because it clogs the bottom pour spout. If it makes it's way to the surface how could it be clogging the spout much less not ending up in the bullets? The only possibility of burnt wood getting in the spout or the bullets is if you physically force it under the surface of the melt. By stirring with any sort of wood you are forcing it under the surface and some will be trapped there. It makes no difference if you scrape off pieces of wood from a stick by scraping the sides or the bottom of the pot, it is under the surface.

I'm not trying to say anyone has to do it my way, that's not my intention. There is however another way to look at this and no doubt some reading this thread will be interested. For me I am 100% sure that no charred wood is trapped under the melt to end up in my bullets because I do nothing to get it under the surface in the first place including (especially) stirring with wood, stainless only for me. I do like the hack saw blade idea though, will be trying that. Should be easy to form to the bottom curve of the pot.
.

 

[JWFilips]

I made up this scraper a number of years ago when I decide to get away from any wood in my bottom pour.
It is made from an old stainless 6 inch ruler & shaped to match the bottom edge of the pot. I also have a skinnier
hacksaw version (Good for getting around the pour spout and rod)
Jim

 

[Bret4207]

I've been fluxing with a stick for a long time. I scrape the sides, the bottom, agitate the melt as best I can without giving myself more nifty burn scars. My understanding was that scraping the sides and bottom loosens the debris, oxidized alloy and other junk while at the same time defeating the tensions holding the crap in suspension within the alloy. The carbon should float to the top, at least if you ladle as God, St Elmer and St Guy Louverin (sp?) intended. I don't know about anyone else, but my oxides and junk tend to continue to appear on the top of the melt even if I don't flux actively, BUT! I use a stainless pot so that might be part of my success at defeating dirt and garbage.

Yeah, paint sticks work great, are often free and tend to be free of pitch that can flare up and remove that knuckle hair that women find sooooo attractive....

 

[JWFilips]

Yeah, paint sticks work great, are often free and tend to be free of pitch that can flare up and remove that knuckle hair that women find sooooo attractive....

Oh That's why we must be losing our sex appeal

 

[fiver]

woo-hoo my knuckle hair has been growing back in recently.
or maybe I'm just bringingsexyback??

 

[JWFilips]

fiver,
You go for it! I just checked out Amazon and they do have Knuckle hair replacements ( the kind you glue on ) Whoo Hoo! ( Not the spray on kind!)
This way you can even wash your hands and the girls won't know!

(This "is" the thread drift thread , correct?)

 

[Brother_Love]

Yep, good thing I have answers about the bullets huh?

 

[JWFilips]

We are a fun lot of Guys! Once the dirty work is answered we tend to drift....but then again old minds seem to do that often!
Sort of tells you you have found the answer!
Keep us posted with your new results
Jim

 

[Ian]

I can't wrap my mind around the concept. Scraping the bottom and charred wood will get trapped in the melt, only scrape the sides and it will make it's way to the surface. Eventually. Much of it will get to the surface but lead is easily dense enough to hold particles in suspension. How much of it is acceptable?

Some state that they won't flux with sawdust because it clogs the bottom pour spout. If it makes it's way to the surface how could it be clogging the spout much less not ending up in the bullets? The only possibility of burnt wood getting in the spout or the bullets is if you physically force it under the surface of the melt. By stirring with any sort of wood you are forcing it under the surface and some will be trapped there. It makes no difference if you scrape off pieces of wood from a stick by scraping the sides or the bottom of the pot, it is under the surface.

I'm not trying to say anyone has to do it my way, that's not my intention. There is however another way to look at this and no doubt some reading this thread will be interested. For me I am 100% sure that no charred wood is trapped under the melt to end up in my bullets because I do nothing to get it under the surface in the first place including (especially) stirring with wood, stainless only for me. I do like the hack saw blade idea though, will be trying that. Should be easy to form to the bottom curve of the pot.
.

I see your point. It's very difficult to know how much fine ash remains suspended and how much migrates to to top of the pot. The only thing I know is I don't detect any issue with junk going into my bullets or causing issues, but I've corrected more than one pot of questionable alloy by slowly drifting Alder sticks through it and letting them rumble and char. That doesn't mean a load of ash isn't left behind, but a lot of stuff does come up to the top. Also, I stir vigorously with a spoon and get a good vortex going which seems to concentrate the suspended stuff to the middle, and after a few minutes of letting it sit the stuff comes to the surface in a clump.

If someone says they get clogged spouts when putting sawdust on top, I think something else is going on, but none of us are there looking over their shoulder so it's difficult to tell exactly what. I've never personally been able to stop up a spout with wood ash (and I've tried when dealing with a nasty pot of contrary alloy that needed aggressive fluxing and maximum alloy exposure to the wood)....but have managed to do it by carelessly tossing sprues and culls back into the pot and letting them sink to the bottom.

 

[Rick]

Lot's of folks doing it that way and it seems without issues. Perhaps just me being anal about the alloy but I look at it as anything I don't intentionally put below the surface and into the melt I don't need to worry about getting out or leaving in the bullets. Same thing with much of casting, if your happy with your results however your doing it you are doing it right for you.
.

 

[fiver]

I'm basically with Rick.
I try super hard to get everything out of the lead in the cleaning and then again in the blending stages that I'm putting nothing else in the alloy when I get to casting.
I will use the metal tools to scrape my casting pots, clean the top of the alloy, and make a feeble attempt to return some oxides.
but for the most part nuthin goes in them but alloy and returns.

 

[Bret4207]

So how do you guys flux your raw materials without adding a lot of carbon and air to break the suspension that holding in the mix? Of course I'm still using 10-50 year old WW. Maybe people now are using pre-processed, store bought alloys? My point being that you can't get the crap to the top without working it loose. The air we introduce even with metal implements gives us oxides. The dust that gathers, the rust in a cast pot, the oxides on and ingot all get under the surface. So how do you deal with it except by going under the surface?

 

[JWFilips]

All my cleaning of my alloy is done in the smelting pot. This entails vigorous agitation , scraping Much applications of pine sawdust and a lot of ladling through the carbon layer that is formed by the sawdust.
After doing this for about 30 minutes the top is cleaned and ingots are ladled out. This is my clean alloy ( the only type I put into my casting pot.)
When I cast I only reduce the then formed oxides with a pinch of beeswax. That just I do
Jim

 

[Rick]

All my cleaning of my alloy is done in the smelting pot. This entails vigorous agitation , scraping Much applications of pine sawdust and a lot of ladling through the carbon layer that is formed by the sawdust.
After doing this for about 30 minutes the top is cleaned and ingots are ladled out. This is my clean alloy ( the only type I put into my casting pot.)
When I cast I only reduce the then formed oxides with a pinch of beeswax. That just I do
Jim

Yes, this ^^^^^^^^

The only difference for me is I also use sawdust in the casting pot but do nothing to force it below the surface.

.

 

[KHornet]

Do what works best for you! Period!

 

[JWFilips]

Do what works best for you! Period!

Paul,
I whole heartily agree with you : but if a fellow needs some directions; we are all here for them. to give them a chance to try ways that may finally "work for them".
We ( speaking of myself ) have done this for awhile. Most of you have done this for half a life time!
We need to give the ones that ask...."roads to follow"....so they can find "what works for them! " At least this is my take on the matter!
That said; if anyone wants some superb info on Cleaning your alloy via "Smelting" and the "Darn best explanation of fluxing vs reducing ever" PM me Because I have PDFs available from some of the best mentors here ( although they were "there" in the previous life!)
Jim

 

[KHornet]

There are often many ways to skin a cat. Some work for one guy and others work not at all, as
there are often many variables. I like the variables in most things, but I prefer regarding shooting,
reloading/casting, I want consistency. Guess that is why I am hung up on BR and Bll.
Paul

 

[Kevin Stenberg]

Like JonB I hate to give advice to the more knowledgeable. I do very little stirring with anything in my casting pot. I try to keep it clean in the first place. About every 4th or 5th casting session, when done I empty the pot as it is cooling. An clean any built up crud with a wire wheel in my drill. 5 minutes work and the sides and bottom are clean.
The only thing I have on the melted lead when casting is melted candle wax.

 

[Rick]

Kevin, that's not the right way to look at it. It's not a matter of "the more knowledgeable", nobody has done everything or knows everything. It's quite likely your experiences will add to the conversation so please continue to add your methods, experiences and or questions.

 

[Brad]

I agree with Rick. Everyone's experiences add to the collective knowledge.