"Holy Navy wax, Batman!"

Brad

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
We don't have a resident physicist so I'm not sure who you are speaking of.

The test results Ian reposted show properties that tell me it most assuredly isn't beeswax. It may contain some beeswax but it isn't pure beeswax.

Assuming it is beeswax just because it doesn't weep castor oil in the face of the lab results Ian posted doesn't strike me as logical.
 
Rick

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
Yes, please tell us who our resident physicist is. Curious minds gotta know.
 
Brad

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
We DO have a resident Chemist but Glen has never commented on this subject.

A resident physicist would be OK as long as they didn't start threads about dark matter and string theory. That would get tedious in a hurry.
 
Brad

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Lots of places can do that sort of testing, it all comes down to how much you are willing to pay to get it done.
I wouldn't be surprised at all to see it cost 500-1000 bucks for that sort of analysis.
 
Ian

Ian

Notorious member
Navy wax bp graph.jpg Navy wax bp graph.jpg

Here ya go, cropped and edited to protect the innocent. This is a boil point test, lots of things boil at the points indicated, but the peaks happen to coincide precisely with those of specific straight-chain hydrocarbons as indicated in the list. Beeswax contains large portions of mono- and di-esters, fatty acids, fatty alcohols, and only a little bit of mixed hydrocarbon waxes. We didn't see any evidence of esters, fats or alcohols as the boil points of those substances didn't match. If such beeswaxy substances were there, they would have popped up in between the clear boil-point peaks of the petroleum hydrocarbons on the "cooler" side of the bell curve. The ragged graph on the high end indicates more complex hydrocarbon mixes that are difficult to determine, though judging by the physical properties of the wax it is likely that it is a complex of branched alkanes (micro-waxes) making the boil-points less peakey on the high end.

Note the first boil point exactly coincides with C-23, a straight-chain hydrocarbon known as Tricosane.

My friend also did a 'black light' test. Straight paraffins won't reflect light, but this wax did, indicating presence of branched hydrocarbons, unsaturated hydrocarbons, and some aromatics.
 
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Brad

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
One of the difficulties in determining "exactly" what it is the very fact that something like beeswax is a mixture of multiple waxes, esters, and alcohols. Add in a variety of chain length Microwaxes and paraffins and you have a cocktail that is difficult to recreate.

Getting a recipe to recreate this stuff is gonna be difficult at best not to mention very pricey.
 
Ian

Ian

Notorious member
Gas chromatography would reveal a lot more than a simple boil-point test, but that = big $$$.

I never needed to go past the "it don't scorch at 515F" test to realize that this stuff didn't have any beeswax in it.
 
Ian

Ian

Notorious member
I still think it's plasticizing wax for one of the common boom compounds the navy used in their shells. The specs are very loose for that stuff, it just had to meet certain melt point and physical property tests, all of which have been declassified and can be dug up on the internet. This wax would have served admirably in that capacity.
 
Josh

Josh

Well-Known Member
Someone write to the Naval headquarters and request the makeup of the wax under the freedom of information act. They may send you cases of info but hey it IS info
 
Josh

Josh

Well-Known Member
You either want to know or you don't. Never said it would be easy, but you would get an answer.
 
Josh

Josh

Well-Known Member
I really admire the lube quest, I also know one day it will pay off in a big way. But right now for me I can make do using standard lubes like Ben's Red and Carnuba Red. Once you rocket scientists figure it out I will be switching for sure, so far I have followed the quest for roughly 3 years.

I am just now getting into PC for pistol bullets, I can not bring myself to shoot PC in rifles, it just isn't as accurate... for me anyway...
 
fiver

fiver

Well-Known Member
okay.
never mind what it is.
if maybe we could focus on what it is made from we don't have to exactly duplicate it.
all we really need is some long strand carbon chain waxes that take heat.
there ain't no way they just quit making a wax with these capability's.
we could do a blend of 2-3 waxes to mimic this and get what we want.
 
Josh

Josh

Well-Known Member
Specifications for our BLUE Machinable Wax:

Extremely hard, hybrid plasticized wax blend. Recommended for high resolution CNC milling and turning. This wax is somewhat more flexible than our green or purple blend. Available in small, medium and large pieces. Excellent choice for parts with high but delicate components such as turbine blades. This wax is too tough to be considered carveable. Usually the first choice for lathe or turning applications.

Hardness: 53 (Shore "D" Scale)Penetration @77 deg. F, 150g (dmm) = 13.0
Specific Gravity: 0.92Specific Density: 0.03472 pounds / cubic inch or, 0.9137 grams / cubic cm
Flash Point (COC): 575 degrees F
Melt Point (Ring & Ball Method): 240 degrees FViscosity 270 degrees F = 1790cP
Volumetric Shrinkage (for recycling, from melting point to room temp): 5% typical
Ash content for lost wax casting applications is low (.0066%)Flexural Modulus 45,250 PSI AverageCoefficient of Thermal Expansion (in./in. ºF): 9.5 x 10-5Coloring: blue dye, permanent, oil base
 
Josh

Josh

Well-Known Member
Yet there is no sub for navy wax.

The linked site says they will make a wax for your needs.
 
Josh

Josh

Well-Known Member
I wonder if they could get a sample of it to check. If they are making wax to such exacting tolerances they probably have ways to check unknown wax or to check the exact lot to lot mix of the ingredients that make their wax.

Just a thought.
 
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