How to identify alloy

[glassparman]

Ok so a friend text me and said he has a 70# block of linotype.

I have some of those hardness pencils, but does anybody know a good way to identify if it is truly Linotype?

 

[waco]

84Pb/12Sb/4Sn is what Linotype is. An XRF gun maybe???
The Lino I have is all in type and spacer form. Small pieces from a print shop.
Who knows how many times it has been remelted and cast. The true alloy content? Anyones guess. I’d get it tested if you really want to know.

 

[JustJim]

If it is still in ingot form, it is fairly distinctive. FWIW, a while back I picked up a few hundred pounds of linotype in (nominally) 70# ingots.

 

[fiver]

it'll break if you hit it.
i was breaking my pigs by hitting them on the corner of some cement steps.
then i used an old dull hatchet and a pair of 2x4's.
i simply made two dents and flipped it over and hit it with the back of the hatchet.
you can see the black antimony crystals inside once it's broken open.

then again it could be mono or stereo type.

an XRF gun will tell you.
but you can weigh it in water and watch the melt point as further 'at home' clues.

 

[glassparman]

This is apparently just a square block. I haven't seen it because I'm away from home working remote. I'll try to get him to send a picture showing the color and a clear picture
up of a fresh gouge in it.

 

[fiver]

it'll probably just be a grey chunk of lead.
i have a block of pure, some 1% antimony, and some lino pigs piled together.
they all look the same except for the shape.
my ww' ingots sitting next to them are still bright and shiny from the small amount of added tin they have.

 

[Dusty Bannister]

When you look at the top surface of the ingot, you will usually see ridges running in irregular lines along the length of the surface. If it is the usual 22-25 pound ingot, you can pick up an end, strike the bar with a hammer and it clangs like a piece of angle iron. If you break the ingot, it will have a very fine powder like appearance, tiny reflective facets or grains, and shining a light across the fractured surface you will see a structure not unlike tree rings resulting from the cooling of the ingot.

If you try to break off a small piece on a corner, and it fractures like gravel, and is a coarse reflective crystal like appearance, it might be antimony.

If you try to chip off a corner of the ingot and the fractured pieces "stick" but do not fall free, you might have a zinc ingot.

If you can measure and weigh the item, pure lead is about 2.6 ci per pound. The linotype will be a little less and you can look that up in the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, 3rd edition. I do not recall off hand exactly what the difference is for antimony and tin.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

I have trust issues with private sales of claimed hard alloys.
I feel safer if in original printers/ letterpress pigs or as type. Or if I know trust seller.
Also, Spacers are generally NOT hard LINO! Printers buy spacer material separate and they are soft NO NEED for them to be hard. Lino is used for type as it requires that hardness for durability. Same reason MONO type is harder. It is usually used for specialty type faces or decorative letters as seen as first letter of a word starting a book or chapter. Its used over &. Over so made of harder material to hold up longer.

Most know "Lino" is like gold & commands higher value. So much like "hard cast bullets" its called lino.

CW

 

[Bret4207]

IMO you will be wasting your time if you really want to know the make up doing anything other than getting it tested by a lab. Linotypes alloy content changes with every remelting and casting, and what you are looking at may well be 40-75 years old. I don't believe there are very many places still using actual line of type printing anymore. Even my poor little hometown news paper stopped that in the early 70's.

If you really want to know- get it lab tested.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Yes letter press is what it was called. Many small presses & printers out there but computers destroyed them. Big presses went Web or away from letter press long ago. Im sure there is still some in use somewhere.

CW

 

[JonB]

you got a hardness tester?
Linotype is BHN 22

No tools?
explore the Melting Point,
Liquidus is 522 F

Disclaimer: Neither of these are definitive, but when you get other results, they are deductive.

 

[Dusty Bannister]

I whole heartedly agree that the best way to determine an alloy is by testing. Most of us do not have the equipment, so visual, and sound can be indicators useful in considering or passing up on various ingots of "lead". Just because the ingot under consideration is in Linotype ingot form, is not really definitive. The hammer test will rule out obvious fake lino. Just look at it as getting rid of the chaff and not as sorting fly specs from pepper.

 

[Joshua]

Lino has a very distinctive taste! Always taste it before you buy it!

Save your pencils for evaluating bullets. Mix a small batch of the “Lino” 1 to 3 Pure. Cast a few, air cool. Cast a few, water drop. Wait a few weeks and then get the pencils out. Then does it fall within your needs for hardness.

 

[glassparman]

Thanks Josh! I'll just run over there and take a big bite!

 

[popper]

What is asking price? Difference between low and high Sb cost? At worst it is low.

 

[glassparman]

Yeah, he says he wants $100 and that it weighs 75#. Not sure about the whole thing. I probably wouldn't use it all in a life time even if it is lino.

 

[Dusty Bannister]

The price is right. Plain lead scrap is often priced at 1.00, Clip on Wheel Weights at 1.25 and Lino at 2.00 and up. Take a small hammer with you to see if it dents or clangs. You can always verify by XRF testing if you buy it.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Yeah, he says he wants $100 and that it weighs 75#. Not sure about the whole thing. I probably wouldn't use it all in a life time even if it is lino.

Yup Price is right and that does change things for me. Id probably take that chance as even soft lead is over 1$/1#.

 

[Joshua]

That is a decent price for “plain lead” these days. If it’s Lino that is a great deal.

I probably wouldn't use it all in a life time even if it is lino.

I have a buffer of three of four hundred pounds of assorted lead, Lino, and pewter (tin). Range scrap maintains that buffer. I probably won’t need to buy any thing else for the rest of my life, as long as I keep scavenging range scrap. Maybe a few batches of super hard if I trip into a bunch of free pure lead.

Do you have a buffer/reserve established?

 

[Dusty Bannister]

As you run out of clip on WW and only have soft scrap lead, that Lino blended 1 lino to 3 lead will make a very nice pistol bullet, and can be heat treated for harder bullets if needed. Still do not think you will ever use it?