HP Work done by Erik Ohlen
- Thread starter Ben
- Start date
I need to be practical on a mill. Heavier is more rigid but it is also more expensive. And heavier which means harder to move.
There has to be a practical point at which spending more money doesn't make sense.
Life is a compromise so why shouldn't a mill be one also?
There has to be a practical point at which spending more money doesn't make sense.
Life is a compromise so why shouldn't a mill be one also?
KeithB
Resident Half Fast Machinist
I wouldn't give more than about $1500 for a used Bridgeport. The ones I've been looking at are older model 9x42 machines that have had the ways rescraped and have relatively new DROs. I think the X and Y axis screws have been replaced at some point, everything seems pretty smooth and relatively tight. If i could get them both for $3k or less I'd sell one for $1500.
Have no idea what it would cost to ship one very far.
Have no idea what it would cost to ship one very far.
Ian
Notorious member
I read somewhere an excellent comment regarding HP cavity and nose design. The biggest take-away for me was the idea that the side angles of the nose need to be a more gentle taper than the angles of the pin in order to encourage expansion, rather than inward collapse.
Personally, I'm a huge fan of the Lyman Devastator mould and straight 50-50 WW/pure-ish alloy, but cannot argue with Glen Fryxell's results, either: http://www.lasc.us/fryxellcasthp45acp.htm
Personally, I'm a huge fan of the Lyman Devastator mould and straight 50-50 WW/pure-ish alloy, but cannot argue with Glen Fryxell's results, either: http://www.lasc.us/fryxellcasthp45acp.htm
Ian
Notorious member
Yeah.....not gonna haul one of those in the back of your Tundra. I've been looking really hard at one of these http://www.grizzly.com/products/4-x-18-3-4-HP-Mill-Drill/G0781
After buying an R8 collet set, some basic end mills, some clamps, blocks/bars, and both vertical and horizontal indexing vices, it will be as much as the Bridgeport Keith talked about. But I have a spot for it, and will have enough tooling to get me started and wishing I had spent the extra money on a DRO.
After buying an R8 collet set, some basic end mills, some clamps, blocks/bars, and both vertical and horizontal indexing vices, it will be as much as the Bridgeport Keith talked about. But I have a spot for it, and will have enough tooling to get me started and wishing I had spent the extra money on a DRO.
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
I have a MP 230 RN HPted to about 200 gr. VERY accurate and expands very nicely in .45 ACP, too.
Hope you are saving, Ian. You are getting more use out of that lathe than anyone I have seen in the first
year of their first lathe. Go as big as your budget can stand on the mill. The $1500 one looks really good
too.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Mill-Drill/G0463
My biggest limitation, by far, on my BenchMaster small mill is the short distance from spindle to table. That
has driven me nuts a number of times, forced work to be clamped down to the bare table on many occasions
where a mill vise would be far easier and quicker, but there is just no room for the workpiece AND a mill
vise and a cutter.
The G0463 has 14 3/4" spindle to table. Once you add a mill vise and then a cutter, you will be surprised
how fast your vertical clearance is sucked up.
Bill
Hope you are saving, Ian. You are getting more use out of that lathe than anyone I have seen in the first
year of their first lathe. Go as big as your budget can stand on the mill. The $1500 one looks really good
too.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Mill-Drill/G0463
My biggest limitation, by far, on my BenchMaster small mill is the short distance from spindle to table. That
has driven me nuts a number of times, forced work to be clamped down to the bare table on many occasions
where a mill vise would be far easier and quicker, but there is just no room for the workpiece AND a mill
vise and a cutter.
The G0463 has 14 3/4" spindle to table. Once you add a mill vise and then a cutter, you will be surprised
how fast your vertical clearance is sucked up.
Bill
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Ian
Notorious member
Good point, Bill. My issue is that I stay cheap, new, and small, or go for big and used. It makes no sense to spend a couple thousand on a flimsy Chinese mill/drill when I might, with time, cash in hand, and diligence, come up with a halfway decent knee mill. $1500 is right on that breaking point.
smokeywolf
Well-Known Member
That can become especially true if you have the rotating base under your vise and add a drill chuck hanging down from the spindle nose.
EDIT: Or a boring head.
The comments here prompted me to look at Bridgeports on ebay. They've gone up in price in the last 10 or 15 years. I'm guessing that the glut in the used Bridgeport market caused by the reduction in Mom & Pop machine shops and the migration to NC machining centers has subsided. Ten years ago, asking prices on used Bridgeports like mine were in the neighborhood of $6500. Now, I'm seeing prices as high as $8500. YIKES!
I'm betting though, with patience, one could still find a decent, older belt/pulley changer for as little as $1500
Ways can always be rescraped, leadscrews & yokes and spindle bearings replaced.
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Ben, What alloy are you going to use? I just got a 314299 clone from Tom at Accurate with the flat point. I have test rounds loaded for this weekend with 50/50 ww plus tin and pure. It seems a little soft but holds together under my 3 lb hammer and anvil test. According the alloy calc. it is 1.5 tin and 1.5 antimony.
Tony
Tony
Thanks Ben, do you get expansion on deer with that alloy? I seem to remember you had done some real world testing a while back and changed some designs on what you like in the hollow point pin. I am trying to nail down a similar alloy I can use for hollow point and flat nose for hunting in asst. 30 cal.
Tony
Tony
Thanks, for the 30-30 and 06 my muzzle velocity will be in the 1850 range give or take(wherever the best accuracy is). My typical range to target is 40 to 125 yard. I'm in north GA so our deer are in the medium class. I do know the hollow point is very velocity sensitive but not sure what the high and low is. I build my own alloys from pure lead using "super-hard", foundry type, and pure tin, so I can make anything I need to. My current rifle alloy is 2/4. I also have a wadcutter alloy for "Bullseye" which is 2-tin and 1.5 antimony. The test alloy I made up for the new flat nose 30-200 is 1.5/1.5. Sure would like to have no more than 3 alloys and the 2/4 is perfect for paper and all day shooting without any leading, and okay for hunting if no expansion is needed. I'm not sure that one alloy will work for flat nose (some rolling of the nose wanted) and hp's.
Sorry for the long post but this stuff is so much fun.
Tony
Sorry for the long post but this stuff is so much fun.
Tony
At 1850 fps, most cast HPs will fragment, and some will do so explosively. Some people like this behavior, some people don't (it kills deer quickly, but can also leave a lot of bloodshot meat). The "sweet spot" for cast HP expansion is between about 1100 fps and 1600 fps. Really hard alloys (e.g. linotype) can fracture and fragment on impact. Medium hardness alloys (BHN of about 11-14) work well for cast HPs, in my experience. Your 2/4 alloy should work fine.