I believe I have a very special rifle

[Snakeoil]

If you want to really impress yourself with a quality rifle, order a Hagn MHK-4.

I have a great appreciation for the European falling blocks. But they are not part of my American Heritage. Yes, a Sharps Borchardt falls into the same category. But still does nothing for me. I have a Belgian Browning Pigeon Grade Superposed Trap gun. It was my Dad's. Absolutely gorgeous. He bought it for me when I was a promising young trap shooter. I liked it, but it did not float my boat. He understood. I wanted a Mod 12. So, he kept the Browning for himself and got me a Mod 12 trap gun a friend had for sale. I ground up many targets with that Mod 12 and it is by far the best swinging trap gun I've ever shot. It may have not been as pretty as the Browning or had as much "prestige", but I preferred it. You know, some like fat ones and some like skinny ones.

 

[Snakeoil]

Okay, here are some pix of the rifle. It's in excellent condition for its age. Note the round insert in the wrist of the stock. I had the stock off and it was starting to split under the tang. Not sure if the stockmaker saw this while he was inletting the stock to the rifle and glued in a cross-dowel to strengthen the stock or if it was a later repair. It would appear that the stock has not been refinished by how nice the fine line checkering looks. So, my guess is it was done while the stock was being fit. If it was built in the '30's, money was tight so I don't see anyone throwing away a stock because of a small crack, especially on a smallbore rifle.

If it turns out to be a rechamber and that kills any collector value, I may choose to rebarrel the rifle. If I do, I am now thinking about going with a round barrel. The round barrel on this rifle is growing on me. I'd keep the same profile and just make it 28 inches long.

My friend who has several Hubalek's in his collection told me an interesting story. Hubalek was good friends with Harry Pope. Pope taught Hubalek how to make barrels. Hubalek then turned around and started competing directly with Pope. He said Pope stopped speaking to him after that.

Here is a pic I found of Hubalek and Pope. In the pic I see 2 first model Win 52's, Hubalek and his son both have Ballards, which is what he was known for building, a 44-1/2 Stevens or High Wall (pic is not clear enough) and a Martini (I believe).

 

[Glaciers]

Snake that’s a fine looking rifle. Looks like the only Winchester part is the action. My opinion for what it’s worth, is that’s a fine period piece. Having said that I’d fine another rifle to build/alter and keep the Bee as is.

 

[Missionary]

I must agree with Glaciers. Some one took great care of that rifle.

 

[Bret4207]

From my reading, there were quite a few people Pope stopped speaking to, and more than few people wouldn't speak to Pope! Money, reputation and pride. Nothing changes over the years.

 

[RicinYakima]

From my reading, there were quite a few people Pope stopped speaking to, and more than few people wouldn't speak to Pope! Money, reputation and pride. Nothing changes over the years.

I read an interesting essay once about why the US exploded in design and manufacturing in the 1800's. England and Europe was the guild system, where everything was a secret and closely held to make more money from your knowledge. In the US, schools and educational fraternities of trades had open lectures of newest or more effective ways to making things. We knew that increased knowledge made everything better for all of us. The exception was gun making, other than the US Armory, they used the old guild method.

 

[Snakeoil]

On my phone so this will be short (phew!).

Talked to the expert today. Gonna keep it and shoot it just like it is. Will provide details when I am in front of my computer.

 

[richhodg66]

On my phone so this will be short (phew!).

Talked to the expert today. Gonna keep it and shoot it just like it is. Will provide details when I am in front of my computer.

Good call. By the way, that is one gorgeous rifle, I am envious.

 

[L Ross]

From my reading, there were quite a few people Pope stopped speaking to, and more than few people wouldn't speak to Pope! Money, reputation and pride. Nothing changes over the years.

I read he was, cynical, opinionated, contrary, and cranky.

 

[Bret4207]

I read an interesting essay once about why the US exploded in design and manufacturing in the 1800's. England and Europe was the guild system, where everything was a secret and closely held to make more money from your knowledge. In the US, schools and educational fraternities of trades had open lectures of newest or more effective ways to making things. We knew that increased knowledge made everything better for all of us. The exception was gun making, other than the US Armory, they used the old guild method.

There is a book out there that covers the US Gov't Armory system and it's, well... disastrous decisions. I wish I could remember the name of it, but it concentrated primarily on Springfield. The good ideas were massively outweighed by the bad ones. I think the guy in charge for decades was named Crozier or something like that. Anyway, as usual the gov't kinda dropped the ball while private industry made great advances. But people put tremendous trust in the gov't even then and assumed they turned out great stuff when the truth was quite different.

The guild system continued in many areas of precision work in the US, not just in gunmaking. It still does to a degree.

 

[Bret4207]

On my phone so this will be short (phew!).

Talked to the expert today. Gonna keep it and shoot it just like it is. Will provide details when I am in front of my computer.

Great decision. Enjoy.

 

[Snakeoil]

Okay, here's the Reader's Digest version of my conversation with Gary Quinlan.

Hubalek's heyday was the 20's and 30's right up to just before WWII. In 1906, at 17, he shot a world record score offhand. He was exclusively an offhand shooter and continued to set records.

He did make centerfire guns/barrels. He was a general gunsmith and did repairs and such in addition to making the best .22 match barrels at the time.

Gary has a catalog that is little more than a small pocket size pamphlet that lists .222 and a couple other varmint calibers which were big at the time. In the margin were a couple other calibers hand-written by someone and I think .22 Zipper was one.

He asked how the name appeared on the barrel. On mine is is A. HUBALEK. Gary said that of all the barrels he's seen over the years, the centerfires were marked A. HUBALEK like mine and the .22 match barrels, for which his is famous, were marked A. HUBALEK SPECIAL. So, although not documentation in the pure form, a pretty good indication that he made the barrel in .218 Bee and it is not a later rechamber. Also, the fact that the .218 came out in 1938 put it in his heyday period. Gary did say that he started making centerfires towards the end of the 30's as WWII approached.

His health deteriorated after WWII and he died in Nov of 1952, same year I was born.

I sent pics of the rifle to Gary because he said Hubalek's wood was distinctive, and he'll be able to identify if he built the rifle. I told him it had a thin Whiteline pad that was a bit crispy. He said they were around back then and he was known to use them.

If I get more info after Gary looks at the pics, I'll post it here.

 

[Snakeoil]

I read he was, cynical, opinionated, contrary, and cranky.

When I talked to Gary about Hubalek going into comp with Pope after he taught him how to make barrel, Gary said Pope did not talk to a lot of people and a lot of people did not talk to Pope. Another tidbit is people talk about owning Pope rifles and what gorgeous woodwork he did. Pope never did wood. The only wood he ever did was on his own rifles and that was crude and purely functional. I think his general appearance says a lot about who he was.

 

[RicinYakima]

There is a book out there that covers the US Gov't Armory system and it's, well... disastrous decisions. I wish I could remember the name of it, but it concentrated primarily on Springfield. The good ideas were massively outweighed by the bad ones. I think the guy in charge for decades was named Crozier or something like that. Anyway, as usual the gov't kinda dropped the ball while private industry made great advances. But people put tremendous trust in the gov't even then and assumed they turned out great stuff when the truth was quite different.

The guild system continued in many areas of precision work in the US, not just in gunmaking. It still does to a degree.

Yes, but they never hide anything. Yep, Ordnance head Crozier made a lot of poor decisions, but everybody knew about them.

 

[Snakeoil]

Gary called me back today after looking at the pix I sent to him. Over the phone I explained that I also had a bakelite hand stop. He said that was more evidence that the rifle was built by Hubalek. He said Hubalek had 2 guys working for him that did wood and the wood on my gun looks like other wood they produced. He's about 99% sure that the rifle is a Hubalek thru and thru. He said if I rebarrel it to keep all the part. I told him I'm not going to touch it, just shoot it and he was very happy.

Today, I got a name for another member of the club who was a big Hubalek collector. I need to track him down. He moved to CA and sold all his guns before he moved. Found his son, first try on the web and he answered the phone number I found. He is going to give my contact info to his dad.

Club member that said he had brass and dies forgot that his dad gave his .218 Bee to his brother. The brother might sell some brass to me. I did find 50 new cases at a local shop after a friend did a canvas of local shops for me. (He works at Beecroft's, Brett). Bought 1000 small rifle primers at that same shop. $129.00... OUCH!!!

I have bullets that I've used in my 22-250. Plus, same club member has an NOE mold for the 47 gr bullet and will let me borrow his dies until I can get a set.

Looking forward to shooting the gun. 3rd weekend of the month is our VT match, which is 100, 150, 200 and 300 yds with round plates. Would love to shoot it at that match. If Hubalek was as good as the legend implies, it could be a tack driver in matches.

Charlie let me borrow his Winchester Single Shot book so I can be better informed. He's not a fan. He's a Hepburn and Rolling Block guy. He'll tolerate Ballards, too.

 

[Bret4207]

Yes, but they never hide anything. Yep, Ordnance head Crozier made a lot of poor decisions, but everybody knew about them.

I'm sorry, the US GOV'T never hides anything?!! That's a good one!

 

[RicinYakima]

I'm sorry, the US GOV'T never hides anything?!! That's a good one!

Sorry, that was pre-1910 when every piece of government correspondence was reported by the 500 independent newspapers. WW1 and the Wilson administration squashed the the media for the first time and it has never been the same.

 

[Bret4207]

That I would have to research, but I've never seen nor read anything to indicate that. If so, wouldn't it be delightful for such an idea to make a come back?!!!

 

[Snakeoil]

While Morris and Felix (aka Ric and Brett) seem to be determined to drag this thread away from the litterbox, I'm going to try to get us back on topic.

I slugged the bore this morning. Measures just a tad over 0.224. SAAMI .22 rimfire spec is 0.222 for groove diameter. Given Hubalek's reputation for making the best .22 RF barrels, I'd say that this pretty much confirms that the barrel was originally made to be a .218 Bee.

 

[richhodg66]

Will you be shooting cast in this rifle? I have shot cast pretty much only in .22 Hornet, but have been contemplating giving it a try in the .218 Bee.